In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

[Scented Nectar]

Oh, and Scented Nectar if you're lurking, I picked up No Man's Sky now that the price dropped to $20 and they've patched in a lot of the missing features. In its current form it's a solid indie title, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. Right now I'm occupied with base building and taking side quests, but eventually I'm going to try to get to the Rento expanse where all the other players are gathering. If they have proper multiplayer by the time I get there and you're still gaming, we'll have to form an official Slymepit exploratory crew.

Big earrings are another form of aposematism, or whatever the fuck that term is - a warning for sensible people to stay the fuck away.

Oh, and Scented Nectar will be happy - for some reason No Man's Sky has got an extension. Lol.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/11/no-mans-s ... y-6845807/

Hi Jet Lagg and CommanderTuvok! :) I just found your posts about NMS on a vanity search. I usually fuck those up by doing them page by page on just the never ending thread, since sometimes something will grab my eye at the top of the pages as I do that. This time I just did the more efficient search box way, so... I see I missed your posts last month.

I gave up on NMS after getting 581 very intensive hours in. It was amazing while it lasted, but all that was left for me, was the unfolding story. Then, it fully dawned on me what it meant that Sony had the team's original storyline changed shortly before release. So, I lost my urge to finish the game or even to just endlessly explore. It wasn't written by the same team that came up with the beautiful game. So, the bloom was off the rose, once that more fully sunk in. But it was nice while it lasted. My favourite game ever.

I see they actually added to the storyline recently. That means they really didn't have the re-write finished at the time of release, I bet.

I found an alien Pepe the Frog on one planet:
https://i.imgur.com/JwAvvvD.png

And one planet had a red light district. The aliens there are not very good spellers though:
https://i.imgur.com/ctICmu3.png

[Kirbmarc]

I guess that is where this is going? Just seems so weird to me, the desire to be morally correct manifesting in some kind of bizarre god concept that is nebulous beyond reason.

"Define believe, define god, define in".

God is a useful and convenient placeholder/excuse for your favourite social project based on the moral foundations that are appealing to your personality.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

"Marijke Vonk
Psychologist |Sexologist | Educator

Normal Men Buy Sex"

Extraordinary men get it for FREE !!!

[free thoughtpolice]

A strange occurrence in Iraq a few years ago, a river of hail mixed with sand or dirt.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

I'm surprised Steers isn't on about the ethnic cleansing in Myanamar.

Steersman isn't awake yet. Seems one of his prostitute friends slipped him a roofie, then stole his wallet.

:lol: Been ripped off a couple of times, but seems the incidence of that type of thing with sex workers isn't substantially different from the same thing happening with other professions.

But, while this might be a bit much to expect, you might try reading this oldish post I ran across the other day:

Marijke Vonk
Psychologist |Sexologist | Educator

Normal Men Buy Sex

Self reporting? No biases there !!!

In Dutch we have a saying “unknown is unloved”, you can’t love what you don’t know. It’s easier to negatively judge a group of people when they are nothing but ‘others’, a group of ‘they’ who are different from us. That’s why visibility is so important when you’re fighting for human rights. When you personally know a gay person it becomes harder to be anti-gay and homosexuals coming out of the closet was an important part of the LGBT movement. .... Outspoken sex workers force others to accept that prostitutes, not victims of trafficking or coercion, but actual sex workers with opinions and choices who demand some basic respect for their autonomy in fact exist. It makes it harder to treat us, the sexual ‘others’, as non-human concepts to theorise about, and instead it gives us a face, a humanity.

That’s why I was so happy to read the guest column by Hugo on Maggie McNeill’s blog. Clients of sex workers are perhaps the most stigmatised and misunderstood people in the entire sex work debate. ....

I can’t even count how many women I know who would like to do sex work but are too afraid of the consequences, the stigma, the discrimination, the violence against sex workers by state and police. None are afraid of the clients, and no sex worker I know reports clients as being the biggest problem. Instead, it’s always the rescuers, the police and the state who seem to do them the most harm and show true disrespect.

The clients? They’re just normal guys who buy sex.

I want to thank Hugo and other clients who are brave enough to tell their story.

Indeed.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

I'm surprised Steers isn't on about the ethnic cleansing in Myanamar.

Steersman isn't awake yet. Seems one of his prostitute friends slipped him a roofie, then stole his wallet.

:lol: Been ripped off a couple of times, but seems the incidence of that type of thing with sex workers isn't substantially different from the same thing happening with other professions.

But, while this might be a bit much to expect, you might try reading this oldish post I ran across the other day:

Marijke Vonk
Psychologist |Sexologist | Educator

Normal Men Buy Sex

In Dutch we have a saying “unknown is unloved”, you can’t love what you don’t know. It’s easier to negatively judge a group of people when they are nothing but ‘others’, a group of ‘they’ who are different from us. That’s why visibility is so important when you’re fighting for human rights. When you personally know a gay person it becomes harder to be anti-gay and homosexuals coming out of the closet was an important part of the LGBT movement. .... Outspoken sex workers force others to accept that prostitutes, not victims of trafficking or coercion, but actual sex workers with opinions and choices who demand some basic respect for their autonomy in fact exist. It makes it harder to treat us, the sexual ‘others’, as non-human concepts to theorise about, and instead it gives us a face, a humanity.

That’s why I was so happy to read the guest column by Hugo on Maggie McNeill’s blog. Clients of sex workers are perhaps the most stigmatised and misunderstood people in the entire sex work debate. ....

I can’t even count how many women I know who would like to do sex work but are too afraid of the consequences, the stigma, the discrimination, the violence against sex workers by state and police. None are afraid of the clients, and no sex worker I know reports clients as being the biggest problem. Instead, it’s always the rescuers, the police and the state who seem to do them the most harm and show true disrespect.

The clients? They’re just normal guys who buy sex.

I want to thank Hugo and other clients who are brave enough to tell their story.

Indeed.

Self reporting? No biases there !!!

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Steersman:

And mothers of serial killers ALWAYS say how great there sons are, they're just misunderstood, the cops framed them, etc, etc, etc

[Lsuoma]

This latest appeal for money got one measly "like". Much less than his other tweets.

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/20 ... o1_250.gif

Looks like a good chance for a fromby there!!!

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

My all time favorite:

12584177_10205591115004654_1026502102_n.jpg

(48.88 KiB) Downloaded 111 times

[Matt Cavanaugh]

This latest appeal for money got one measly "like". Much less than his other tweets.

Transwoman or not, you gotta have a lot of balls to publicly declare your profession as "Charity Case."

[DrokkIt]

I guess that is where this is going? Just seems so weird to me, the desire to be morally correct manifesting in some kind of bizarre god concept that is nebulous beyond reason.

"Define believe, define god, define in".

God is a useful and convenient placeholder/excuse for your favourite social project based on the moral foundations that are appealing to your personality.

Quite.

I don't know why it surprises me that far-left types can get into religion like this, but it does somehow. Explains a lot though.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/20 ... o1_250.gif

Looks like a good chance for a fromby there!!!

She'd never see you coming.

[Steersman]

Steersman:

And mothers of serial killers ALWAYS say how great there sons are, they're just misunderstood, the cops framed them, etc, etc, etc

LoL. And buying sex is exactly the same as being a serial killer? You may wish to take a look at the Wikipedia article on analogies as you kind of suck at creating them.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Steersman:

And mothers of serial killers ALWAYS say how great there sons are, they're just misunderstood, the cops framed them, etc, etc, etc

LoL. And buying sex is exactly the same as being a serial killer? You may wish to take a look at the Wikipedia article on analogies as you kind of suck at creating them.

Once again, you missed the point. I was NOT equating woman who degrade themselves by having sex with you for $$$, to serial killers. The point was that mothers of serial killers ALWAYS say what great kids they are, and apparently according to your study, women who degrade themselves with asshole losers for $$$ also do the same thing. Analogy valid

[Kirbmarc]

I guess that is where this is going? Just seems so weird to me, the desire to be morally correct manifesting in some kind of bizarre god concept that is nebulous beyond reason.

"Define believe, define god, define in".

God is a useful and convenient placeholder/excuse for your favourite social project based on the moral foundations that are appealing to your personality.

Quite.

I don't know why it surprises me that far-left types can get into religion like this, but it does somehow. Explains a lot though.

Personally I don't think that atheism and rationalism are for everybody. A lot of people (but not everyone) have a psychological need for some kind of "spirit" or "god" or "mystical sense" or " judgment of the ancestors" or "future utopia" or "meaning of life" to motivate themselves to get out of the bed in the morning, even if they know it's bullshit, because the alternative is the very real possibility that you might never get what you want and that your efforts won't produce any meaningful result because there is no "destiny",no "path", no "revelation" or "end of times", but only a series of things, some of which you can deal with, some others you simply cannot.

In short reality isn't plotted, it's not scripted, but a lot of people are like actors who need some kind of script to play their part, while some can act without any script and improvise. Not everyone is psychologically fit to handle the idea that reality might not have a plot (some people are, though, and actually find the idea of this "story" to be chafing and limiting).

The trick is to a) make sure that this vague "something", the "plot" that people use to get through life doesn't coalesce in a series of authoritarian dogmas b) keep the "plot" as separated as possible from science, which HAS to be based on data and test, not on fuzzy feelings about a secret meaning to reality, and c) keep politics and laws secular and based on a rational compromise between different groups rather on a single social project that must fit all.

That's why it's useful to defend freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom from religion, so that there's a free market of competing "somethings" that can be tried and tested freely by people to see whether they work or not, without losing their civil rights or their jobs just because they switched from a "life story" to another. And again, some people will be perfectly fine even without the "plot" to lead their way.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

How about THIS analogy. There once was a handsome guy. Intelligent, witty, and charming. He was a excellent hunter. Traveled far and wide on his expeditions. With great skill, he shot numerous exotic animals. Took the bodies to the taxidermist, and mounted the heads on his wall.

Then there was an overweight, hideously unattractive, small dicked, stinky, sweaty, dim witted, autistic loser, ugly both inside and out. He had no skills whatsoever.However, for some reason unbeknownst to anybody, he fell into a pile of $$$. Well, he wanted a wall full of trophies too. But not possessing the requisite skills to acquire said trophies, he took his $$$, went down to the local taxidermist , purchased a bunch of trophies, and hung them on his wall. Then being the autist that he is, went on chat rooms and message boards all over the internet bragging about his prowess.

[fuzzy]

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/20 ... o1_250.gif

Oh, how I wish I could find an instance of a favorite cartoon quotes; Fearless Fly's equivalent of kryptonite: "My glasses! Without them I'm helpless!"

[MarcusAu]

Personally I don't think that atheism and rationalism are for everybody. A lot of people (but not everyone) have a psychological need for some kind of "spirit" or "god" or "mystical sense" or " judgment of the ancestors" or "future utopia" or "meaning of life" to motivate themselves to get out of the bed in the morning, even if they know it's bullshit, because the alternative is the very real possibility that you might never get what you want and that your efforts won't produce any meaningful result because there is no "destiny",no "path", no "revelation" or "end of times", but only a series of things, some of which you can deal with, some others you simply cannot.

In short reality isn't plotted, it's not scripted, but a lot of people are like actors who need some kind of script to play their part, while some can act without any script and improvise. Not everyone is psychologically fit to handle the idea that reality might not have a plot (some people are, though, and actually find the idea of this "story" to be chafing and limiting).

...

So would you agree with the argument that atheists should keep quiet because there are religious people who need their faith to get through life - and if an atheist speaks up (or even is visible enough) that it could have an adverse effect?

The science / religion / other magesteria are going to bump into each other at some point. So if people need some form of ritual it's probably best to take the supernatural aspects out of it (or at least acknowledge them as a form of play acting).

[jimhabegger]

All of my objections to what I think is happening in most cases, are because of the dishonesty, treachery, self-deception, and self- betrayal that I see in it, not to the use of drugs to relieve symptoms, in itself.

Either I don't know what you are taking about or you don't.

It might be either one of those, or both. I'm interpolating and extrapolating from a variety of sources, including the funhouse mirrors of media stories. I could be doing some of that all wrong.

What proportion of diagnoses of depression do you think are down to treachery?

The treachery I'm thinking of is not in the diagnosis of depression, or anything else that doctors are doing. The treachery is mostly in the marketing of the drug and health food industries, and in the complicity of public institutions. Of course it's the doctors who are overprescribing the drugs, but I think that what they're doing is mostly honest and well-intentioned.

How much prescribing is overprescribing? To judge for yourself, try a Web search with keywords "overprescribing " and "antidepressants," and filter the results however you want to. I'm guessing much more than half, enough to safely say "most."

Here are the first three results of my search:

Overprescribing Antidepressants | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/si ... epressants
Surprising new data on the misuse of antidepressants.

Doctors Overprescribing Antidepressants in Older Patients ...
http://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supple ... overy.html
Many people over age 50 are on antidepressants even through they've never been diagnosed with depression.

Overprescribing antidepressants to children ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1315653/

@Jett Lagg, take note, from the Psychology Today article:

"... the key reason the FDA decided in 2004 to add a black-box warning to this class of drugs: a marked increase in suicide ideation among especially teens."

[Sunder]

I can't help but dislike any form of the little people argument.

If modernity isn't meeting people's basic emotional needs (and it isn't) then religion stepping in to fill the gap should not be viewed as a mercy, but as a form of predation.

[Kirbmarc]

So would you agree with the argument that atheists should keep quiet because there are religious people who need their faith to get through life - and if an atheist speaks up (or even is visible enough) that it could have an adverse effect?

The science / religion / other magesteria are going to bump into each other at some point. So if people need some form of ritual it's probably best to take the supernatural aspects out of it (or at least acknowledge them as a form of play acting).

No, I don't think that atheists should keep quiet or that by speaking up they have adverse effects. Atheist/secularist associations are necessary to keep "religion" or its godless fuzzy feeling "meaning of life" equivalent away from science and limit its impact on laws and politics by defending Enlightenment principles in order to preserve a pluralistic market of ideas and of criticism of ideas. Religious people need to accept criticism of the consequences of their fuzzy feelings/"life plots".

I simply don't believe that ALL people can become atheists, only SOME, and in the long run fighting for secularism and for Enlightenment principles is better than trying to "deconvert" people. Writing books about how atheism works is good, but it will convince only the people with the potential of becoming atheists, and the others will maybe agree with some criticism but retain their "fuzzy" rituals etc.

The ideal situation would be one where all people who are still believers are all wishy-washy "cafeteria believers", free to pick and choose which messages they want without authoritarian religious traditions or hierarchies.

[Kirbmarc]

I can't help but dislike any form of the little people argument.

If modernity isn't meeting people's basic emotional needs (and it isn't) then religion stepping in to fill the gap should not be viewed as a mercy, but as a form of predation.

I simply think that not all people are equal and need the same things in order to feel good, and that if freely chosen some forms of wishy-washy cafeteria beliefs are tamer and more harmless than precisely defined and authoritarian religions.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

So would you agree with the argument that atheists should keep quiet because there are religious people who need their faith to get through life - and if an atheist speaks up (or even is visible enough) that it could have an adverse effect?

The science / religion / other magesteria are going to bump into each other at some point. So if people need some form of ritual it's probably best to take the supernatural aspects out of it (or at least acknowledge them as a form of play acting).

No, I don't think that atheists should keep quiet or that by speaking up they have adverse effects. Atheist/secularist associations are necessary to keep "religion" or its godless fuzzy feeling "meaning of life" equivalent away from science and limit its impact on laws and politics by defending Enlightenment principles in order to preserve a pluralistic market of ideas and of criticism of ideas. Religious people need to accept criticism of the consequences of their fuzzy feelings/"life plots".

I simply don't believe that ALL people can become atheists, only SOME, and in the long run fighting for secularism and for Enlightenment principles is better than trying to "deconvert" people. Writing books about how atheism works is good, but it will convince only the people with the potential of becoming atheists, and the others will maybe agree with some criticism but retain their "fuzzy" rituals etc.

The ideal situation would be one where all people who are still believers are all wishy-washy "cafeteria believers", free to pick and choose which messages they want without authoritarian religious traditions or hierarchies.

Every prostitute that Steersbot ever visited is an Atheist.

Why is that ???

Because not a single solitary one has ever been heard to utter "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God"

Not a single solitary one !!!

Not a single solitary time !!!

[Shatterface]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

[Steersman]

<snip>

The ideal situation would be one where all people who are still believers are all wishy-washy "cafeteria believers", free to pick and choose which messages they want without authoritarian religious traditions or hierarchies.

Every prostitute that Steersbot ever visited is an Atheist.

Why is that ???

Because not a single solitary one has ever been heard to utter "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God"

Not a single solitary one !!!

Not a single solitary time !!!

LoL. You mad, bro? Never saw "When Harry Met Sally"? ;-)

[free thoughtpolice]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

:lol: :clap:

[Steersman]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

Think I may have already done so ... ;-)

[Old_ones]

I see that Finntronaut has updated Steve Shives intro song for him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luZ1jAkbmHc

Steve Shives is so disgusted with you.

https://imgur.com/Ohe7KHV.gif

Is it just me or is there a resemblance here?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SY300_.jpg

Something about the eyes...

[jimhabegger]

What can you do to guard against self-deception?

I like that question very much. I adore that question. One way I try to do it is by spending a lot of time with some of the people whose ideas and interests alarm me the most, and with people who think my views and values are wrong, trying to see things their way, to see the good in what they're doing, and to find ways that I can serve their best interests.

What ways have you learned to guard against self-deception?

[KiwiInOz]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

:burn:

[jimhabegger]

In short reality isn't plotted, it's not scripted, but a lot of people are like actors who need some kind of script to play their part, while some can act without any script and improvise. Not everyone is psychologically fit to handle the idea that reality might not have a plot (some people are, though, and actually find the idea of this "story" to be chafing and limiting).
..,
Then again, some people will be perfectly fine even without the "plot" to lead their way.

Are you counting yourself as one of those people who aren't acting out a story, or following any script or plot?

[MarcusAu]

What can you do to guard against self-deception?

I like that question very much. I adore that question. One way I try to do it is by spending a lot of time with some of the people whose ideas and interests alarm me the most, and with people who think my views and values are wrong, trying to see things their way, to see the good in what they're doing, and to find ways that I can serve their best interests.

What ways have you learned to guard against self-deception?

I try not to make my mind up too soon.

Like the Borderer's prayer goes:
"Lord grant that I am right, for I'm a hard man for turning".

Actually - verification, contemplation, logic, reason and the scientific method all help.

[jimhabegger]

All of my objections to what I think is happening in most cases, are because of the dishonesty, treachery, self-deception, and self- betrayal that I see in it, not to the use of drugs to relieve symptoms, in itself.

I think that in most cases the problem is ignorance. And I don't mean the ignorance of a particular person... I mean ignorance of the nature of the problem and ignorance of a truly effective solution.

I agree that a lot of it is ignorance, but I think the ignorance is more a consequence of the dishonesty and treachery, than of a lack of available information.

... with mental health there is a lack of good reliable solutions. People have to use trial and error as well as a huge variety of possibly solutions including drugs, and diet, and therapy... etc.

Agreed.

... sometimes what looks like a fraud turns out to actually work (Jordan ...

Ive noticed that too.

[jet_lagg]

The biggest influence in my ways of thinking about mental/emotional illnesses might have been studying and practicing NLP. Another influence in my way of thinking about everything, including mental/emotional illnesses, has been Alfred Korzybski. I've also learned lessons about ways of thinking from the wave/particle controversy in physics, from flat map projections of the earth's surface, from rectangular and polar coordinates, and from tin cans.

I'm probably ninja'd but NLP is... controversial to say the least. This is a very empirically minded crowd, so in addition to giving up on the idea of fighting the changing definitions (when it comes to mental health that's a given, unless you want to argue homosexuality is still a mental illness), you should know your audience.

[jimhabegger]

The serotonin chemical balance fairy tale about SSRIs, that was popularized for marketing purposes, was a deliberate fraud from the very start, witu tragic consequences for multitudes of people, including teen suicides. I see no reason to think that any of the succeeding chemical theories that have been or are being used in promoting antidepressants, or any other psych and tune-up meds, are any less deceptive, and tragic in their consequences. If there are any chemical theories that can do more good than harm, they will not be any of the theories being promoted in drug marketing campaigns.

[jet_lagg]

A syndrome is a collection of symptoms that are lumped together for medical purposes, regardless of whether or not they have any single common cause. They're lumped together because people have found ways of treating them together.

I'm replying again without being caught up, and I know I'll regret it, but if a single treatment affects all symptoms that itself is evidence of an single underlying cause for said symptoms even if you don't know what that cause is. Do you agree?

[jet_lagg]

Gonna be ninja'd three times now but fuck it. For those who hadn't heard of NLP check out Darren Brown convincing Simon Pegg he wanted a particular present. It's incredibly entertaining even if it might be (by Brown's own admission) complete bullshit. One of the most aggravating things about the man is he won't show his hand when it comes to establishing what's real psychological tricks and what's showmanship.

[jimhabegger]

A syndrome is a collection of symptoms that are lumped together for medical purposes, regardless of whether or not they have any single common cause. They're lumped together because people have found ways of treating them together.

I'm replying again without being caught up, and I know I'll regret it, but if a single treatment affects all symptoms that itself is evidence of an single underlying cause for said symptoms even if you don't know what that cause is. Do you agree?

Not when the choice of symptoms to lump together is dictated by what the treatment can allegedly do. For example, it might be found from experience that some drug makes people sleepy, and deadens pain at the same time, so it's prescribed for people with insomnia and chronic pain, rather than prescribing two separate drugs. The fact that a drug happens to alleviate two or more symptoms at the same time, is no evidence at all that those symptoms have a common cause.

[free thoughtpolice]

re: SSRIs and teen suicide:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/tee ... 1406207226

A national team of researchers led by Christine Y. Lu, an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School, tracked antidepressant use among 2.5 million young people between 2000 and 2010. After the FDA’s warnings in 2003 and 2004, use of commonly prescribed antidepressants like fluoxetine (Prozac), sertraline (Zoloft) and others fell by 30% in teenagers and 25% in young adults. During that same period, suicide attempts rose by 22% in teens and 34% in young adults. The researchers concluded that the decrease in antidepressant use, sparked by worries over suicidal thoughts, may have left many depressed young people without appropriate treatment and that may have boosted the increase in suicide attempts. The results were published online this week in BMJ.

While the researchers suggested that the FDA’s warnings are responsible in part for the decline in antidepressant use, the media reaction—and sometimes overreaction—to them made things worse.

In other words, the media and self appointed experts like woo peddlers and religious dingbats took a precautionary warning as evidence that the use of SSRIs actually increased rate of suicides.
Tragically, the propagation of that myth may have cost some people their lives
Wouldn't want to give advice to someone that could cost them their lives would you?

[jet_lagg]

I found an alien Pepe the Frog on one planet:
https://i.imgur.com/JwAvvvD.png

You fucking racist :lol:

I've since stopped playing as well. I used the black hole roulette to get within 30 jumps of the player hub but shortly (after far too much wasted warp fuel) discovered that the calculations were assuming a fully upgraded jump drive and I was actually hundreds of jumps away. It's just not worth it to continue. I need some sort of player interaction to make me care about the game, and even with the latest developments they err far too much on the side of grinding/lost in space.

[gurugeorge]

Unbelievably, it appears that Orwell bit from Hillary's book is real, lots of people are laughing at it.

[jet_lagg]

What can you do to guard against self-deception?

I like that question very much. I adore that question. One way I try to do it is by spending a lot of time with some of the people whose ideas and interests alarm me the most, and with people who think my views and values are wrong, trying to see things their way, to see the good in what they're doing, and to find ways that I can serve their best interests.

I've defended Steersman more than once. :snooty:

[free thoughtpolice]

jimhabegger wants to kill teenagers I guess.

[jet_lagg]

The serotonin chemical balance fairy tale about SSRIs, that was popularized for marketing purposes, was a deliberate fraud from the very start, witu tragic consequences for multitudes of people, including teen suicides. I see no reason to think that any of the succeeding chemical theories that have been or are being used in promoting antidepressants, or any other psych and tune-up meds, are any less deceptive, and tragic in their consequences. If there are any chemical theories that can do more good than harm, they will not be any of the theories being promoted in drug marketing campaigns.

Citation fucking needed. SSRIs work. Saying they don't is denying statistics. I'd be more sympathetic if you hadn't proffered woo like NLP as an alternative.

[HoneyWagon]

Hmmmmm

[jet_lagg]

Not when the choice of symptoms to lump together is dictated by what the treatment can allegedly do. For example, it might be found from experience that some drug makes people sleepy, and deadens pain at the same time, so it's prescribed for people with insomnia and chronic pain, rather than prescribing two separate drugs. The fact that a drug happens to alleviate two or more symptoms at the same time, is no evidence at all that those symptoms have a common cause.

You're proving my point without meaning to. If a drug makes people sleepy and also alleviates pain, it suggest the physical mechanisms behind insomnia an chronic pain have something in common. You don't need to the details to draw that conclusion.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Gonna be ninja'd three times now but fuck it. For those who hadn't heard of NLP check out Darren Brown convincing Simon Pegg he wanted a particular present. It's incredibly entertaining even if it might be (by Brown's own admission) complete bullshit. One of the most aggravating things about the man is he won't show his hand when it comes to establishing what's real psychological tricks and what's showmanship.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMropNbe]

Yes, I loved him for a while, but this became just too much of a problem. Firstly that bullshit with the lottery, which was clearly just TV trickery. I don't mind watching magicians who amaze me even if I know they are using camera scams, but with Brown it was supposed to be authentic, self-taught pschy stuff. If I'm sat there just thinking he has a plant, or has edited something, it loses that interest for me.

[jet_lagg]

Bah two typos in a post. I blame the scotch. You pitizens are the the salt of the earth btw.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

Me mum would never lower her standards that much.

Seriously, mother jokes ???

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

<snip>

The ideal situation would be one where all people who are still believers are all wishy-washy "cafeteria believers", free to pick and choose which messages they want without authoritarian religious traditions or hierarchies.

Every prostitute that Steersbot ever visited is an Atheist.

Why is that ???

Because not a single solitary one has ever been heard to utter "Oh God, Oh God, Oh God"

Not a single solitary one !!!

Not a single solitary time !!!

LoL. You mad, bro? Never saw "When Harry Met Sally"? ;-)

Of course I saw it.

I went with a woman.

Its this thing called a date.

Totally alien to you, I suppose

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

Think I may have already done so ... ;-)

Yes, me eighty year old mum has been a prostitute since Eisenhower was president.

And in all that time she has NEVER seen such an ugly, stinky, smelly, autistic, small dicked loser as Steersman. That's why she charges him so much more than anyone else.

And the fat ugly smelly stupid small dicked loser always tries to pay her in Canadian dollars.

I mean. really

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Steers, pay Barbie's mum what you owe her and both of you take a break.

:burn:

Yes, Steerstard is nothing more than a flaming turd

[Matt Cavanaugh]

re: SSRIs and teen suicide:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/tee ... 1406207226

A national team of researchers led by Christine Y. Lu, an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School, tracked antidepressant use among 2.5 million young people between 2000 and 2010. After the FDA’s warnings in 2003 and 2004, use of commonly prescribed antidepressants like fluoxetine (Prozac), sertraline (Zoloft) and others fell by 30% in teenagers and 25% in young adults. During that same period, suicide attempts rose by 22% in teens and 34% in young adults. The researchers concluded that the decrease in antidepressant use, sparked by worries over suicidal thoughts, may have left many depressed young people without appropriate treatment and that may have boosted the increase in suicide attempts. The results were published online this week in BMJ.

While the researchers suggested that the FDA’s warnings are responsible in part for the decline in antidepressant use, the media reaction—and sometimes overreaction—to them made things worse.

In other words, the media and self appointed experts like woo peddlers and religious dingbats took a precautionary warning as evidence that the use of SSRIs actually increased rate of suicides.
Tragically, the propagation of that myth may have cost some people their lives
Wouldn't want to give advice to someone that could cost them their lives would you?

They should just put SSRIs in the water supply, like fluoride.

[jimhabegger]

re: SSRIs and teen suicide:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/tee ... 1406207226

I meant to include this link in my post to jet lagg, but I forgot:

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/Dru ... 173233.pdf

That's the explanation from the FDA, for why it decided to mandate warnings about suicide risks.

The speculations in the research you quoted, about some suicides resulting from decrease in antidepressant use, look plausible to me, and might very well be true, but I don't see any evidence for that in that paragraph, without knowing how much increase there was in the number of suicides before 2004. Even with that, the evidence is very weak, without knowing how much of the increase in suicides was among people who were using antidepressants, and how much among those who weren't.

The research that led to the FDA mandating the warnings, compared the suicide rates between people who were taking antidepressants, and people who were taking placebos, and it observed more suicides, in the short term, among those who were taking the antidepressants. That looks to me like evidence that, for some teenagers at least, taking antidepressants increased the risk of suicide. I see nothing contrary to that in the research you quoted, even if those speculations happen to be true.

[Barbie's Boyfriend]

Shatterface, aren't you from England.

I hear that while British women are some the most hideous creatures in the Multiverse, the sex is really good.

Especially the oral.

Seems there aren't any teeth to get in the way:

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to, sexual harassment. By way of example, unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of an unwelcome sexual nature are prohibited.

In addition to our speakers, conferences have included:
- Richard Carrier's live reading of the Infancy Gospels
- a live videoshoot of "Holy Shit" series (starring David Fitzgerald as King David)

:shifty:

[jimhabegger]

What can you do to guard against self-deception?

I like that question very much. I adore that question. One way I try to do it is by spending a lot of time with some of the people whose ideas and interests alarm me the most, and with people who think my views and values are wrong, trying to see things their way, to see the good in what they're doing, and to find ways that I can serve their best interests.

I've defended Steersman more than once. :snooty:

I thought of saying that I've even done that with Steersman, but I resisted that temptation.

Until now.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Yikes! Imaginary Jesus is among us:

https://www.facebook.com/MythicistMKE/p ... 2755474858

[free thoughtpolice]

re: SSRIs and teen suicide:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/tee ... 1406207226

I meant to include this link in my post to jet lagg, but I forgot:

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/Dru ... 173233.pdf

That's the explanation from the FDA, for why it decided to mandate warnings about suicide risks.

The speculations in the research you quoted, about some suicides resulting from decrease in antidepressant use, look plausible to me, and might very well be true, but I don't see any evidence for that in that paragraph, without knowing how much increase there was in the number of suicides before 2004. Even with that, the evidence is very weak, without knowing how much of the increase in suicides was among people who were using antidepressants, and how much among those who weren't.

The research that led to the FDA mandating the warnings, compared the suicide rates between people who were taking antidepressants, and people who were taking placebos, and it observed more suicides, in the short term, among those who were taking the antidepressants. That looks to me like evidence that, for some teenagers at least, taking antidepressants increased the risk of suicide. I see nothing contrary to that in the research you quoted, even if those speculations happen to be true.

Ironically, the link you gave was the warning that was proven unfounded by the study I posted. Also this a later report that was founded on a huge sample, in the millions instead of early speculation which rightly erred on the side of precaution.
When antidepressants weren't being prescribed the rates of suicide went up, not down.
I don't think you understood the numbers quoted if you don't think that contradicts the warning you posted which was addressed in my link.
You seem to miss the point.

[jimhabegger]

The serotonin chemical balance fairy tale about SSRIs, that was popularized for marketing purposes, was a deliberate fraud from the very start, witu tragic consequences for multitudes of people, including teen suicides. I see no reason to think that any of the succeeding chemical theories that have been or are being used in promoting antidepressants, or any other psych and tune-up meds, are any less deceptive, and tragic in their consequences. If there are any chemical theories that can do more good than harm, they will not be any of the theories being promoted in drug marketing campaigns.

Citation fucking needed. SSRIs work. Saying they don't is denying statistics. I'd be more sympathetic if you hadn't proffered woo like NLP as an alternative.

1. Citation for what? For thinking that the appealing picture that was painted in the early days of marketing SSRIs, about how they work, by correcting an imbalance in serotonin levels, was a fraud? Do you disagree with that? I thought it was common knowledge.
2. I'm not saying that SSRIs don't work, if by that you mean that they sometimes improve people's lives, and sometimes even save lives.
3. I'm not promoting NLP as an alternative to using drugs. I'm not proposing anything as an alternative to using drugs, and I'm not promoting NLP at all. All I said was that studying and practicing it has had an influence on my thinking about what to in the face of recurring and continuing mental/emotional adversities, because I thought I saw people speculating about where my ideas are coming from.