In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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jet_lagg
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6241

Post by jet_lagg »

Fegg wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:
If it seems like I'm drawing a moral equivalence it's only because I'm arguing with the robot who insists his mother is not a woman and "literal word of God" is an entirely different category of thing from "literal transcription of God's words", and I'm getting frustrated.
"literal word of God" has no clearly defined meaning - both "literal" and "word" can be understood differently enough that
the same person could easily answer yes or no depending upon what he thought you meant. This is a big problem with
survey questions in general.

If you used terms of art in protestant theology a decent question would be
do you believe in:
a) plenary inspiration
b) verbal inspiration or plenary verbal inspiration
c) dictation theory
d) none of the above

And if you asked fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals you would find a somewhat even split
between a) and b) and practically no takers for c) and d).

You seem to be insisting that people really mean that they accept dictation theory -"literal transcription of God's words"
when they answer a question which they may well take to mean -"do you believe the bible is really of both human and
divine authorship?"

B.
Nothing as silly as that. I'm agreeing there is a difference, but it's a distinction of only academic interest (ask me how important I think the various doctrinal disputes of any given faith are). "Literal word of God" need not have a any kind of theological precision here to cause massive negative outcomes. The fact is there are millions of Christians that agree the bible is as authoritative as God's own words, though not dictated by God. If that were to change somehow to them believing the scriptures were as authoritative as God's own words, and also literally dictated by God, it wouldn't be of any concern to me. It's like the difference between a schizophrenic who thinks Satan told him to murder people and a schizophrenic who thinks Satan's agent told him to murder people.

screwtape
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by screwtape »

Tigzy wrote:
Pitch: Avengers Age of Ultron is actually an antifeminist paen to womyn-hating racist Tony Stark's (and by extention, Whedon's) belief that men are better at giving birth and parenting, via Stark's technological ass-babies Ultron and The Vision. Sure, Ultron went off the rails a bit, but the intervention of the Korean womyn scientist (read: Philipino nanny racist stereotype) ensured The Vision was raised as a 'good' cis-gendered (internalised) white male while daddy Stark happily conformed to the gender stereotype by preferring to stay at work. The subtext is that rich white male womyn hating racist fathers coupled with submissive far-eastern nannies make the best parents. So it's really a totally antifeminist racist screed about the 'superiority' of white imperialist racist cis male toxic etc etc etc type stuff.
Ultron? I bought one of those this week. Just spent the morning at the beach with it and a 1963 Leica M2.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=htt ... 00.jpg&f=1

fuzzy
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6243

Post by fuzzy »

The obvious solution to the problem of Confederate statues in New Orleans is to replace them all with monuments to Britney Spears. Here's the change.org petition:

https://www.change.org/p/john-bel-edwar ... %3Acontrol

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6244

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

shoutinghorse wrote:Bit of a long shot asking on here but are there any dream analysts out there?

I had a dream last night that Prince William was killed in an accident on the Thames, he was travelling with Kate the kids and Harry & his latest girlfriend (that actress) they were on the Royal barge which was being driven by Princess Anne and she crashed into one of those big cargo barges that travel down the Thames (very similar scenario to the Marchionesse disaster)
Anyway, this caused a National crisis as people stared rioting at the thought of Charles becoming King and there were calls for Anne to be executed for being responsible for Williams demise.

This has been bugging me all fucking day, normally I never remember dreams but I just can't get this out of my head. HELP!

P.S. I'm not a Republican nor am I a die hard Royalist, basically that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me. ... Oh and had not been drinking nor do I use drugs.
It's always about the penis.


shoutinghorse
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Posts: 2649
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6245

Post by shoutinghorse »

Tigzy wrote:Whoo - back! Was unable to access the Pit for a while there - kept getting 'server not found', even though Down For Just Me said it was accessible and other pitters were able to access it. I'm guessing it must've been my ISP fartarsing around.

Can't do without the Pit. It's my internet cigarette. My 'fag', if you will.
I had the same earlier on, I initially put it down to an alt-left conspiricy to shut down the pit.

shoutinghorse
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6246

Post by shoutinghorse »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:


It's always about the penis.
Mine or Prince Williams? .. I'm even more confused now :shock:

Shatterface was onto something with the Diana analysis although I've not really watched any but we have been bombarded with trailers.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6247

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Shatterface wrote: I can't see anything problematic about a series based on the premise you can use a woman anyway you want and then erase her memory.
Isn't that Michael Shermer's M.O.?

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6248

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
It's always about the penis.
Mine or Prince Williams?
Yours and your Prince Albert.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

NASA has released a photo of the eclipse revealing that the Sun was blocked out by Danielle Muscato's gut.
muscato_eclipse.jpg
(58.82 KiB) Downloaded 193 times

GenerallyFading
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by GenerallyFading »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Tigzy wrote:Whoo - back! Was unable to access the Pit for a while there - kept getting 'server not found', even though Down For Just Me said it was accessible and other pitters were able to access it. I'm guessing it must've been my ISP fartarsing around.

Can't do without the Pit. It's my internet cigarette. My 'fag', if you will.
I had the same earlier on, I initially put it down to an alt-left conspiricy to shut down the pit.
You mean it wasn't?

Damn.

deLurch
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6251

Post by deLurch »

This exists. Not endorsing it. I just found it interesting. Not sure if the game play will be worth it. But sometimes ridicule is an excellent sign.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ri ... iscussions

free thoughtpolice
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Posts: 11165
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6252

Post by free thoughtpolice »

How everyone didn't go blind in the olden days when they didn't know not to look at the eclipse?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/24 ... _23170052/

Keating
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Posts: 2421
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:18 pm
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6253

Post by Keating »

shoutinghorse wrote:Bit of a long shot asking on here but are there any dream analysts out there?

I had a dream last night that Prince William was killed in an accident on the Thames, he was travelling with Kate the kids and Harry & his latest girlfriend (that actress) they were on the Royal barge which was being driven by Princess Anne and she crashed into one of those big cargo barges that travel down the Thames (very similar scenario to the Marchionesse disaster)
Anyway, this caused a National crisis as people stared rioting at the thought of Charles becoming King and there were calls for Anne to be executed for being responsible for Williams demise.

This has been bugging me all fucking day, normally I never remember dreams but I just can't get this out of my head. HELP!

P.S. I'm not a Republican nor am I a die hard Royalist, basically that kind of stuff doesn't really bother me. ... Oh and had not been drinking nor do I use drugs.
It means you're in love with your mother and want to kill your father. Seek help.

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6254

Post by Steersman »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:
Tigzy wrote:
Does anyone know if it's supposed to be 'doxing' or 'doxxing'? I've been getting mixed signals on this, tbh.
I'd heard that 'dox' is the proper spelling.
When you release someone's sex tape, it's doxxxing.
Actually, it's dox-xing or dox-ying depending on the sex of the doxxee. Or do???ing if the target is trans or, gawd help us all, "genderfluid" ...

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6255

Post by Steersman »

MarcusAu wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:And Kirbmarc, I'm listening to what you're saying. In your opinion, what would it take to convert the majority of the population to cultural Muslims?
[.youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPicNmkkH_g[/youtube]
:)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DWDm4VAAIohTd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DWDm4VAAIohTd.jpg ;-)

Brive1987
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6256

Post by Brive1987 »

Fegg wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:
If it seems like I'm drawing a moral equivalence it's only because I'm arguing with the robot who insists his mother is not a woman and "literal word of God" is an entirely different category of thing from "literal transcription of God's words", and I'm getting frustrated.
"literal word of God" has no clearly defined meaning - both "literal" and "word" can be understood differently enough that
the same person could easily answer yes or no depending upon what he thought you meant. This is a big problem with
survey questions in general.

If you used terms of art in protestant theology a decent question would be
do you believe in:
a) plenary inspiration
b) verbal inspiration or plenary verbal inspiration
c) dictation theory
d) none of the above

And if you asked fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals you would find a somewhat even split
between a) and b) and practically no takers for c) and d).

You seem to be insisting that people really mean that they accept dictation theory -"literal transcription of God's words"
when they answer a question which they may well take to mean -"do you believe the bible is really of both human and
divine authorship?"

B.
Must have missed your first post. You are most welcome to fuck off.

Pls follow the arrow.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... 7-pD9RKlyg

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6257

Post by Steersman »

gurugeorge wrote:
Suet Cardigan wrote:It appears that Antifa has decided to take on 4Chan. This'll end well.

https://squawker.org/culture-wars/antif ... nst-4chan/

:popcorn:
Filthy casuals vs. hardcore gamers. :lol:
"Filthy cross-dressing casuals vs. hardcore gamers." ;-)
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status ... 9426434048

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6258

Post by Steersman »

free thoughtpolice wrote:How everyone didn't go blind in the olden days when they didn't know not to look at the eclipse?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/24 ... _23170052/
Speaking of ... https://twitter.com/DailyMail/status/900706233262493697 ;-)

fuzzy
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6259

Post by fuzzy »

Some prep school kids had an off campus "Jews VS Nazis" beer pong event.



http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta ... /597074550

fuzzy
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6260

Post by fuzzy »

"We as a community, as a country, have to get our hands and wrap our hands around the problem of hate speech in general, to understand how horrifying that image is to Jewish people," Berg said.

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6261

Post by Steersman »

Kirbmarc wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:It's also true that pretty much all Christians give themselves wiggle room. So fucking what? Do you honestly believe Muslims don't? "Of course Mohammed didn't literally fly to heaven on a winged horse. It was a spiritual journey." "Of course there wasn't a literal flood that wiped out the species. It's a metaphor." It's not different kettles of fish. It's different flavors of the same lunacy.
To a degree, yes, but the biggest question with religion isn't about the supernatural phenomena, it's about morality and the political and legal enforcement of morality. The supernatural phenomena can be hand-waved, rationalized or assumed to be metaphorical (although post-modern attacks on science from philosophers like Feyerabend or Kuhn are one of the reasons why pseudo-science which defends the letter of the books, like creationism, is becoming popular among people who think of themselves as intellectuals). ...
Interesting bit of analysis there spread out over several posts. Particularly glad to see this in one of them:
Kirbmarc wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:And Kirbmarc, I'm listening to what you're saying. In your opinion, what would it take to convert the majority of the population to cultural Muslims?
If you're talking about muslims who live in "western" countries the most efficient solution would be to close all muslim religious schools and allow them to reopen only if they accept governmental control over what they teach (so no hateful or bigoted messages taught to kids), have a list of imams and keep them under control, severely limit immigration from muslim countries to those who are highly educated and/or members of a class of people which victimized by islamic laws/islamic regimes, and stop cooperating with muslim theocracies until they accept control over the material they can send and the money they're allowed to spend in your country.
Although one might suggest that that is looking, shall we say, a tad "illiberal"? ;-)

And this - "or someone who goes full Steersman or even worse" - is nice to see too as some evidence you think I'm not as far beyond the Pale as some ... :-)

However, I'm a bit curious as to what you think are the roots in the Quran of the claim - made by many including Shadi Hamid and Simi Rahman - that the Quran is entirely the literal word of gawd. Seems to be of some relevance.

In any case, somewhat in passing, a couple of stories about your four scenarios, and about Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
France: Police find rocket launcher and other weapons in Paris No-Go Zone suburb

Why Is the Southern Poverty Law Center Targeting Liberals?
Ayaan wrote:Since the violence in Charlottesville 10 days ago, when white supremacists left one young woman dead and 19 others injured, the Southern Poverty Law Center has hit the jackpot. The Alabama-based nonprofit is set to receive millions of dollars in donations from some of the nation’s deepest of pockets. Apple pledged $1 million. JP Morgan Chase & Co.: half a million. George and Amal Clooney even got in on the action, promising to donate another $1 million.

Like every other decent American, I was outraged that the president of the United States equivocated in condemning neo-Nazi activity in this country. Nazism — not to mention white supremacy and racial bigotry — has no place in a civilized society.

But is donating money to the S.P.L.C. the best way to combat this poison? I think not. If Tim Cook and Jamie Dimon had done their due diligence, they would know that the S.P.L.C. is an organization that has lost its way, smearing people who are fighting for liberty and turning a blind eye to an ideology and political movement that has much in common with Nazism. ....

That’s a shame, because Islamic extremism — a movement that aims to impose a caliphate and Sharia law by violent means — is as toxic as white supremacy. In the past two decades, it has certainly been responsible for many more deaths.

Like neo-Nazis, Islamic extremists despise liberalism. They deny the equality of the sexes, justify wife-beating and, in some cases, even the enslavement of female unbelievers. The Islamic State and groups like it regularly murder gay people in the most heinous ways. Islamic extremists are also virulently anti-Semitic, like the Nazis before them. And like today’s American Nazis, they brandish swastikas, chant slurs and peddle conspiracy theories. ....
Indeed. The times, they are a-changin' ....

TheMudbrooker
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6262

Post by TheMudbrooker »

I get the feeling C.J. Werleman (sp?) won't be favoriting this.



Although there are bits which may engage Steersman's hydraulics.

Kirbmarc
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6263

Post by Kirbmarc »

Steersman wrote: And this - "or someone who goes full Steersman or even worse" - is nice to see too as some evidence you think I'm not as far beyond the Pale as some ... :-)
Damning by faint praise. Of course there are people worse than you. Supporters of a muslim genocide, for example. You "merely" support ethnic cleansing.

MacGruberKnows
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6264

Post by MacGruberKnows »

Steersman wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:How everyone didn't go blind in the olden days when they didn't know not to look at the eclipse?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/24 ... _23170052/
Speaking of ... https://twitter.com/DailyMail/status/900706233262493697 ;-)
Like these ones better:

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6265

Post by Steersman »

:lol: Meme Wars II
A binary star system can also produce eclipses if the plane of the orbit of its constituent stars intersects the observer's position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6266

Post by Steersman »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote: And this - "or someone who goes full Steersman or even worse" - is nice to see too as some evidence you think I'm not as far beyond the Pale as some ... :-)
Damning by faint praise. Of course there are people worse than you. Supporters of a muslim genocide, for example. You "merely" support ethnic cleansing.
Phew! Good to know ... ;-)

Though you might consider that ethnic cleansing ["cleans like a white tornado!"] isn't quite as pejorative as you apparently think it is:
Ethnic cleansing is the systematic deliberate removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.[1][page needed] The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), intimidation, as well as mass murder and genocidal rape.
When cultures and ideologies are like oil and water - e.g., Islam and the West - then that is frequently the only rational solution.

deLurch
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6267

Post by deLurch »

I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.


Old_ones
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6268

Post by Old_ones »

deLurch wrote:I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.

I don't. That's fucked up.

KiwiInOz
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6269

Post by KiwiInOz »

deLurch wrote:I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.

Bloody hell. Quite apart from the torture aspect, that is ineffective stretching for anything requiring dynamic muscular strength and flexibility. Like, say, cheerleading.

Old_ones
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6270

Post by Old_ones »

KiwiInOz wrote:
deLurch wrote:I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.

Bloody hell. Quite apart from the torture aspect, that is ineffective stretching for anything requiring dynamic muscular strength and flexibility. Like, say, cheerleading.
General rule: if your approach to high school cheer coaching would be improved by a safeword, you've got serious problems.

Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6271

Post by Guest_936d3dec »

imho, this one is a bit more tenuous than the Eric Clanton effort, but if true, /pol/ strikes again. And if true, really says something about the power of crowdsourced autism.

Once upon a time, we relied on Google to bring forth the power of crowds of autistics, sadly, no longer.

The scary part is that if /pol/ can do this with a crowd of people, ya have to wonder what the NSA and Facebook can do.

deLurch
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6272

Post by deLurch »

Guest_936d3dec wrote:The scary part is that if /pol/ can do this with a crowd of people, ya have to wonder what the NSA and Facebook can do.
The NSA & Facebook do not have crowds of highly motivated unpaid labor. If it cannot be automated, then the NSA & Facebook are not doing it.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6273

Post by Lsuoma »

Tigzy wrote:Whoo - back! Was unable to access the Pit for a while there - kept getting 'server not found', even though Down For Just Me said it was accessible and other pitters were able to access it. I'm guessing it must've been my ISP fartarsing around.

Can't do without the Pit. It's my internet cigarette. My 'fag', if you will.
Nope. Daily Stormer moved their account to the same ISP as the Pit, and Anonymous DDOSed the DNS servers. Happened again later this afternoon, too.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6274

Post by free thoughtpolice »

deLurch wrote:
Guest_936d3dec wrote:The scary part is that if /pol/ can do this with a crowd of people, ya have to wonder what the NSA and Facebook can do.
The NSA & Facebook do not have crowds of highly motivated unpaid labor. If it cannot be automated, then the NSA & Facebook are not doing it.
The problem is, if you pay them you end up with Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden.
You need either robots, functional ones, not like Steersbot 49, or slaves. Fact of life.

Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6275

Post by Guest_936d3dec »

The NSA & Facebook do not have crowds of highly motivated unpaid labor. If it cannot be automated, then the NSA & Facebook are not doing it.
Yeah, but maybe it can be. /pol/ seemed to use photographic matches of partial tattoos, I wonder what a smart set of nsa computer guys could do with that.

deLurch
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6276

Post by deLurch »

Lsuoma wrote:Nope. Daily Stormer moved their account to the same ISP as the Pit, and Anonymous DDOSed the DNS servers. Happened again later this afternoon, too.
Does that mean you are a fascist?

free thoughtpolice
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6277

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Goodnight sweet Slymepit. I'm going to burrow in to the pillowfort feeling that all is well with life. :)

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6278

Post by Lsuoma »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Tigzy wrote:Whoo - back! Was unable to access the Pit for a while there - kept getting 'server not found', even though Down For Just Me said it was accessible and other pitters were able to access it. I'm guessing it must've been my ISP fartarsing around.

Can't do without the Pit. It's my internet cigarette. My 'fag', if you will.
I had the same earlier on, I initially put it down to an alt-left conspiricy to shut down the pit.
Not far wrong. See above.

Fegg
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6279

Post by Fegg »

jet_lagg wrote: Nothing as silly as that. I'm agreeing there is a difference, but it's a distinction of only academic interest (ask me how important I think the various doctrinal disputes of any given faith are). "Literal word of God" need not have a any kind of theological precision here to cause massive negative outcomes.
I can imagine Jordan Peterson saying yes to the survey question:
Imaginary Dr. Peterson wrote: It depends on what you mean. The stories of the Bible are among the most illuminating stories of humanity. The logos of God
is the divine image of humanity which everyone can make manifest in themselves to the extent that they live in accordance
with the idea of the good. So it seems fair to say that the Bible also embodies the logos.
jet_lagg wrote: The fact is there are millions of Christians that agree the bible is as authoritative as God's own words, though not dictated by God. If that were to change somehow to them believing the scriptures were as authoritative as God's own words, and also literally dictated by God, it wouldn't be of any concern to me. It's like the difference between a schizophrenic who thinks Satan told him to murder people and a schizophrenic who thinks Satan's agent told him to murder people.
No. Because the Bible believer thinks that his sacred text was written by human beings in times, places and situations quite different from his own - you can always make an argument based on trying to understand this context. If a text is understood as a dictation from God, context becomes much less relevant.

B.

Lsuoma
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6280

Post by Lsuoma »


Lsuoma
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6281

Post by Lsuoma »

deLurch wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Nope. Daily Stormer moved their account to the same ISP as the Pit, and Anonymous DDOSed the DNS servers. Happened again later this afternoon, too.
Does that mean you are a fascist?
Could be, Lurchio, could be...

SM1957
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6282

Post by SM1957 »

Terrorism has no religion.

This only started to be chanted when it was the religion of peace that was bombing people.

If Christians bomb people, terrorism definitely has a religion.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001 ... areas-bomb

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6283

Post by Steersman »

jet_lagg wrote:
gurugeorge wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:Do you honestly believe Muslims don't? "Of course Mohammed didn't literally fly to heaven on a winged horse. It was a spiritual journey."
But they can't say that openly in most Muslim countries. There was a brief period when they could, but that's far in the past now (although it could return if reformers like Majid Nawaz are successful).

There is a difference between "literal word of Allah via an angel" and "prophecy or speech inspired by God." Especially if the former is the majority interpretation of one religion, and the latter the majority interpretation of another religion. Most Christians aren't the literalist type of evangelical, whereas most Muslims have to (publicly) at least profess to be that type of Muslim.

It seems to me that you're trying too hard to make all religions morally equivalent. They're not, they're on scales of various kinds (pro-science to anti-science, pro-reason to anti-reason, vicious to kind, barbaric to civilized).
If it seems like I'm drawing a moral equivalence it's only because I'm arguing with the robot who insists his mother is not a woman ....
Two front war? ;-) You might take a close look at the Wikipedia article on reification which is the logical fallacy where “an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete real event or physical entity”. And classes – such as “woman”, “man”, and “teenager” – are abstractions writ large: they’re not entities in themselves having mass and extension.

And, as an analogy – “the core of cognition”, consider that I recently became a member of the Conservative Party of Canada – paid my dues, got my membership card, and can now stand up, proud and free, and say “I am a Conservative”, and that I am now a member of the class “Conservatives”. Which, I would argue, is more or less identical to, analogous with, the case of “woman” and the class “women”, but the “membership fee” in that latter case is simply “produces ova”. And should I stop paying my dues, or a woman lose that ability due to disease or the encroachments of age, then I would simply no longer be able to claim membership in the class “Conservatives”, and she in the class “woman”. A loss, I might add, that doesn’t diminish in the slightest any claims to being a human being, or to any rights attached thereto.

Really don’t see it as that big of a deal in either case, and that many seem to do so, particularly in the latter one, suggests a serious and problematic misunderstanding of the nature of classes and definitions. Although I’ll readily concede that it is a common failing, and that “an uncritical use of the apparently pellucid notion of class” undergirds Russell’s paradox which, in turn, led eventually to Godel’s proof. Which is, apparently and to some extent and as far as my very limited understand goes, an assertion on the limits of formal systems of logic. Complicated concepts, but if one isn’t careful about defining terms properly then one can easily wind up just chasing one’s tail – maybe amusing, but not very productive to say the least.
jet_lagg wrote:… arguing with the robot who insists … "literal word of God" is an entirely different category of thing from "literal transcription of God's words", and I'm getting frustrated.
:-) Take a deep breath, count slowly back from 10 … ;-)

Maybe I’m partly to blame, but I think you’re either moving the goal posts, are using terms ambiguously or inconsistently, or are unclear on the definitions of the terms you’re using and what their implications are. As I’ve said before several times and in several ways, I’m not at all denying that some Christians think some portions of the Bible are “the literal word of God”. But that’s a rather different kettle of fish from asserting, as with the Quran, that the book consists of precisely and only that. You might note this passage from the Wikipedia article on Biblical literalism which Fegg’s recent comments suggested:
The Bible contains many passages in which the authors claim divine inspiration for their message or report the effects of such inspiration on others. Besides the direct accounts of written revelation, such as Moses receiving the Ten Commandments, the Prophets of the Old Testament frequently claimed that their message was of divine origin by prefacing the revelation using the following phrase: "Thus says the LORD" …..

An exception common to all the different views of inspiration is that, although the New Testament Scriptures quote, paraphrase, and refer to other works including other New Testament documents, …, none of the various views of inspiration teach that these referenced works were also necessarily inspired, though some teach that the use and application of these other materials is inspired, in some sense.
Which seems to rather clearly accept that, in the view of many if not most Christians, not all of the Bible is of “divine origin” or even just “inspired”. In addition, you might note the common definition for inspired:
adjective: inspired
1. of extraordinary quality, as if arising from some external creative impulse.
Asserting that one’s creative efforts were “inspired by God” is hardly claiming that one was in close communication with God, and had a lengthy conversation with Him (or Her), the upshot of which was a synthesis leading to the work in question. And it rather clearly leaves open the possibility of other people having a different interpretation – which seems largely if not entirely precluded with the Quran.
jet_lagg wrote:Islam is much worse than Christianity. I've never been shy about saying it. What I have difficulty buying is that it's categorically worse and immune to reform in a way Christianity clearly was not.
Good – I’m glad you’re prepared to concede at the outset that “Islam is much worse”. Though you might ask yourself why that is the case.

But I wonder whether you bothered to read that article of Hamid I linked to earlier – seems he gives chapter and verse on precisely why Islam is “categorically worse and immune to reform”. For confirmation, you might also check out the Patheos article – Moderate Muslims Have Hit Their “Wall” – by ex-Muslim (I assume) Simi Rahman I quoted from earlier:
And sure, there were efforts made to modernize Islam, but they were only superficial. We couldn’t do it. We couldn’t do it because there is a logical dilemma at the core of Islam. And that is, that the Quran is the last word of God, that it is perfect and unchangeable. And to even suggest such a thing is blasphemy and apostasy.
Can you seriously argue that that is in any way the case with Christianity?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6284

Post by Hunt »

deLurch wrote:I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.

Scene from White Women Can't Split?

But seriously, that'll teach her not to espouse Geocentrism.

But really seriously, I used to do that to myself on purpose in the vain attempt to do the splits. I feel much better now that I've given up. (my general philosophy to life)

But really, really seriously...I forgot what I was going to say.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6285

Post by Lsuoma »

SM1957 wrote:Terrorism has no religion.

This only started to be chanted when it was the religion of peace that was bombing people.

If Christians bomb people, terrorism definitely has a religion.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001 ... areas-bomb
Come on, you idiot. That was a scant five days before the attacks on the Twin Towers, where the followers of Mohammedadeuhhaddehmmmumeded proved that they, and he, are the galactic masters of peaceful Zen contemplation.

Fucking hater!!!

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6286

Post by gurugeorge »

Shoe0nHead expresses in her sweet, inimitable way, roughly what I should think most sane, civilized people are thinking these days:-


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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6287

Post by Steersman »

Brive1987 wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
Linky? But sounds like PZ.

In unrelated news from your neck of the woods:
[tw.eet]https://twitter.com/StaunchA/status/900244682952790016[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/StaunchA/status/900244682952790016

What's the scoop there? Natives getting restless? Drums along the Mohawk? ;-)
With 4 senate seats, One Nation has plenty of support in the electorate.
Understandable. Increasing number of countries raising questions about the wisdom of Muslim immigration. Somewhat apropos of which: https://twitter.com/StaunchA/status/900619644737691648
https://twitter.com/AgendaOfEvil/status ... 5675943936

Not sure of the date of the news clip in the last tweet, but the last few seconds of it (@ 1:09) has one of the Pakistani perps quoted as saying something about his "Islamic cultural beliefs convinced him he had a right to rape the girls".

Something profoundly rotten if not totally demented about the "culture" and the "religion".
Brive1987 wrote:PZ's call to arms:
http://archive.is/CzDb3
Thanks. Interesting though was the quote of Charlies Pierce at Esquire getting his panties in twist - virtue signaling like no tomorrow - while giving no indication of the Left's culpablity for the mess. Something that the National Review was prepared to do in their ‘Get Tough or Shut Up’: The Malicious Spirit Loose in the Land

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6288

Post by Steersman »

Hunt wrote:
deLurch wrote:I understand the coach's ambition. But you really have to work on stretching out and limbering up. You can't force something like that all at once and not have injuries.

[.youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHYMaABHCw4[/youtube]
<snip>

But really, really seriously...I forgot what I was going to say.
Maybe something about how 5 displays of the same video is maybe at least 4 too many? ...

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6289

Post by MarcusAu »

Well - this may prove interesting....


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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6290

Post by feathers »

Steersman wrote:
Shouldn't that be "blacking out Obama"?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6291

Post by Steersman »

TheMudbrooker wrote:I get the feeling C.J. Werleman (sp?) won't be favoriting this.

[.youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-nnBWdXEes[/youtube]

Although there are bits which may engage Steersman's hydraulics.
:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5gpoZzwcKY

But interesting video on "New Atheism", particularly the early reading of the National Review article. Although I didn't listen to much more than the first 10 minutes - tend not to watch long videos, particularly if there isn't a transcript to see at the outset how it's likely to develop.

But thought that the NR article made some reasonable points, particularly on the hypocrisy of the "Left" - though that's a bit of an amorphous term - in going along with attacks on Christianity but getting their knickers in a twist over criticism of Islam. And even Kaufman's argument for and definition of god as "the one eternal and transcendent source of all existence and knowledge" - the Divine Logos - is not particularly unpalatable, although it might well qualify as a "deepity": nice conjecture but moot how much heavy lifting it's capable of.

Kind of expect that's where Kaufman may have a point, and where atheists in general go off the rails: easy to throw stones at particular religions - particularly anthropomorphic & Abrahamic ones; not so easy to actually prove the concept is without any utility or value at all. Jordan Peterson's point, or one of them, if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6292

Post by Steersman »

feathers wrote:
Shouldn't that be "blacking out Obama"?
:-) Expect that would really have had the SJW knickers in a twist, particularly after the ACLU had been accused of peddling "white supremacy" for posting a picture of some white kid.

I had posted a tweet of someone giving Google a bad time for naming a new product Oreo - supposedly a racist term: black on the outside, white on the inside - but turns out that was just a Poe. Impossible to tell these days.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6293

Post by Keating »

Who put fresh batteries in Steersman?

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6294

Post by Steersman »

Keating wrote:Who put fresh batteries in Steersman?
:-) Elon Musk has provided some solar-rechargeable ones for me to test out - plenty of sun here these days, working great ... :handgestures-thumbupright: ;)

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6295

Post by MarcusAu »

Steersman wrote: ...
Kind of expect that's where Kaufman may have a point, and where atheists in general go off the rails: easy to throw stones at particular religions - particularly anthropomorphic & Abrahamic ones; not so easy to actually prove the concept is without any utility or value at all. Jordan Peterson's point, or one of them, if I'm not mistaken.
Deepak Chopra & L Ron Hubbard would also agree in the utility of religious belief.

Sometimes it leads to good things and sometimes to bad - who are any of us to judge what other people do or believe?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6296

Post by Steersman »

MarcusAu wrote:
Steersman wrote: ...
Kind of expect that's where Kaufman may have a point, and where atheists in general go off the rails: easy to throw stones at particular religions - particularly anthropomorphic & Abrahamic ones; not so easy to actually prove the concept is without any utility or value at all. Jordan Peterson's point, or one of them, if I'm not mistaken.
Deepak Chopra & L Ron Hubbard would also agree in the utility of religious belief.

Sometimes it leads to good things and sometimes to bad - who are any of us to judge what other people do or believe?
Proof is kind of in the pudding, isn't it? As the KJV puts it:
Matthew 7:16-20

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Sure looks like Islam is the evil fruit of a particularly corrupt "tree".

And as Carl Sagan put it:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4RPbIvVcAAPm4Y.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4RPbIvVcAAPm4Y.jpg

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#6297

Post by feathers »

deLurch wrote:
Guest_936d3dec wrote:The scary part is that if /pol/ can do this with a crowd of people, ya have to wonder what the NSA and Facebook can do.
The NSA & Facebook do not have crowds of highly motivated unpaid labor. If it cannot be automated, then the NSA & Facebook are not doing it.
Also, Antifa will just get better at covering themselves. Remember, of all Antifas, only a few handfuls have been identified this way.

One thing Antifa may learn is to all use the same (brand of) clothes, no branded/coloured backpacks and so on.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by MarcusAu »

People should be free to speak even if what they say is wrong.

That goes for Carl Sagan and Fred Phelps (though both have been rather quiet recently) and for anyone that wishes to promote or criticise religion.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by SM1957 »

feathers wrote:
Also, Antifa will just get better at covering themselves. Remember, of all Antifas, only a few handfuls have been identified this way.

One thing Antifa may learn is to all use the same (brand of) clothes, no branded/coloured backpacks and so on.
Sort of like a military uniform?

The police can do with Antifa what they do with Tommy Robinson here when he protests against jihadist flags being shown.

Declare that they cannot guarantee his safety and so force him away from his counter protest.

Brive1987
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Post by Brive1987 »

MarcusAu wrote:People should be free to speak even if what they say is wrong.

That goes for Carl Sagan and Fred Phelps (though both have been rather quiet recently) and for anyone that wishes to promote or criticise religion.
Maybe. Individuals. At speakers corner. But there are decent bounds outside the circle of reasonable community.

Where two or three gather in an ideology's name, the police should be there with them.

Locked