In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21601

Post by Bhurzum » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:40 am

deLurch wrote:
shoutinghorse wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:10 am
I've been out for the day and just caught up. So when are we kicking the coons out?
Possums will be next. Where does it stop?

https://imgoat.com/uploads/d61ab14322/73440.jpg
Well, if this is anything to go by, possums have it coming!


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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21602

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:21 am

Sargon seems to do fine when he's up against useless wankers like Thomas Smith. (In the same way Ben Shapiro looks smart when he debates air headed SJW college students). But I caught a snippet of him with Rubin? and Rubin was sympathetic but Sargon couldn't even articulate.

The alt-right / libertarian echo chamber breeds intellectual laziness just as much as the regressive left echo chamber.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21603

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:30 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Sargon seems to do fine when he's up against useless wankers like Thomas Smith. (In the same way Ben Shapiro looks smart when he debates air headed SJW college students). But I caught a snippet of him with Rubin? and Rubin was sympathetic but Sargon couldn't even articulate.

The alt-right / libertarian echo chamber breeds intellectual laziness just as much as the regressive left echo chamber.
Sargon is a lousy debater. He turned in an embarrassing performance against Dr. Kristi Winters Phd. At least for the bit I could stomach listening to.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21604

Post by Guest_3bc53337 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:33 am

Doesn't that prove JS Mill's point that you really don't understand your side of the argument if you have never actually had to encounter arguments against it?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21605

Post by shoutinghorse » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:00 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Sargon seems to do fine when he's up against useless wankers like Thomas Smith. (In the same way Ben Shapiro looks smart when he debates air headed SJW college students). But I caught a snippet of him with Rubin? and Rubin was sympathetic but Sargon couldn't even articulate.

The alt-right / libertarian echo chamber breeds intellectual laziness just as much as the regressive left echo chamber.
Sargon is a lousy debater. He turned in an embarrassing performance against Dr. Kristi Winters Phd. At least for the bit I could stomach listening to.
Check out his chat with Josh Rogan, he starts talikng about the Sarkeesian human garbage stuff and then gets caught up in some kind of "The whole media is against me and I dindu nuffin" conspiracy and Rogan takes him down a peg, it's a bit embarrassing watching him squirm a little try and back track.

I like Sargon and generally enjoy his content but Spencer is correct in that he does think he's more intellectually superior than he actually is.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21606

Post by jet_lagg » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:02 pm

feathers wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:56 am
jet_lagg wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:19 pm
I do fantasize about colonies or limited social experiments though. Maybe give BLM their own town somewhere.
They could call it 'New Liberia' or so.
Maybe someone who knows something about Liberia can explain why it's not another one of those alt-right talking points that makes a nice internet meme but actually demonstrates the opposite of what they want it to (I'm not saying that's what you meant, Feathers).

Freeborn American blacks and ex-slaves are repatriated to Africa to found a new state where they immediately become the elite of said state. What's that? A few generations this side of the Atlantic turned them into Protestant, democracy-inclined individuals, the natural superiors of primitives living in the bush? I thought the alt-right didn't believe in magic soil? Then things go well, more or less, until the latter end of the 20th century when the Americo-Liberian president is overthrown by a member of the indigenous Krahn in a military coup, the long succession of western civilization's legacy comes to an abrupt end, and everything goes to shit.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21607

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:12 pm

shoutinghorse wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Sargon seems to do fine when he's up against useless wankers like Thomas Smith. (In the same way Ben Shapiro looks smart when he debates air headed SJW college students). But I caught a snippet of him with Rubin? and Rubin was sympathetic but Sargon couldn't even articulate.

The alt-right / libertarian echo chamber breeds intellectual laziness just as much as the regressive left echo chamber.
Sargon is a lousy debater. He turned in an embarrassing performance against Dr. Kristi Winters Phd. At least for the bit I could stomach listening to.
Check out his chat with Josh Rogan, he starts talikng about the Sarkeesian human garbage stuff and then gets caught up in some kind of "The whole media is against me and I dindu nuffin" conspiracy and Rogan takes him down a peg, it's a bit embarrassing watching him squirm a little try and back track.

I like Sargon and generally enjoy his content but Spencer is correct in that he does think he's more intellectually superior than he actually is.
It was Rogan I was thinking of. Starts with "R". Rogan's no prize, either.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21608

Post by DrokkIt » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:17 pm

shoutinghorse wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Sargon seems to do fine when he's up against useless wankers like Thomas Smith. (In the same way Ben Shapiro looks smart when he debates air headed SJW college students). But I caught a snippet of him with Rubin? and Rubin was sympathetic but Sargon couldn't even articulate.

The alt-right / libertarian echo chamber breeds intellectual laziness just as much as the regressive left echo chamber.
Sargon is a lousy debater. He turned in an embarrassing performance against Dr. Kristi Winters Phd. At least for the bit I could stomach listening to.
Check out his chat with Josh Rogan, he starts talikng about the Sarkeesian human garbage stuff and then gets caught up in some kind of "The whole media is against me and I dindu nuffin" conspiracy and Rogan takes him down a peg, it's a bit embarrassing watching him squirm a little try and back track.

I like Sargon and generally enjoy his content but Spencer is correct in that he does think he's more intellectually superior than he actually is.
Give some of the statements Spencer made were basically arguing for a "mystical whiteness", I think Sargon could have done a lot more with it by just quietly asking him what he meant and how it's supposed to work, instead of getting ratty.

Trying to get in the weeds with ethno-nationalists about concepts of liberty is a waste of time when they are just making emotional arguments based on how they feel about race. Why don't nations with considerable white majorities behave in accordance with the model they are advancing? Why not just test the propositions rather than get angry because these people don't want to talk about Locke and Hobbes.

Styx did a much better job.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21609

Post by Bhurzum » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:32 pm

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Rogan's no prize, either.
Thank fuck, I thought I was the only one! Rogan, for all of his smug pontifications, is still an air-headed muppet who only recently dropped his belief in flat-Earth theory. He routinely makes fun of one of his regular guests (surname Bravo, can't remember first name) because he's a full-on tinfoil hatted conspiritard and yet Rogan himself was exactly the same until recently. I think the dude has taken a few too many kicks to the head...or not enough.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21610

Post by jet_lagg » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:37 pm

Between NewsRadio and facilitating Alex Jone's weed-induced tangent about extradimensional pedophiles secretly pulling the strings of American politics I have endless love for Rogan. He's not someone I tune in to for analysis though. Maybe if I actually gave a damn about MMA.


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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21612

Post by Ape+lust » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:50 pm

Bhurzum wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Rogan's no prize, either.
Thank fuck, I thought I was the only one! Rogan, for all of his smug pontifications, is still an air-headed muppet who only recently dropped his belief in flat-Earth theory. He routinely makes fun of one of his regular guests (surname Bravo, can't remember first name) because he's a full-on tinfoil hatted conspiritard and yet Rogan himself was exactly the same until recently. I think the dude has taken a few too many kicks to the head...or not enough.
Rogan is often baked during his show, which makes him susceptible to propositions that make stoners go "who-o-o-oa!"

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21613

Post by Sunder » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:52 pm

I see talk of Western identitarianism as a short path to people honestly arguing that we need to all convert to Christianity. Lots of appeals to consequences and other ridiculousness flying around. It's honestly a bit surprising.

Maybe if that one lady with the 15 kids or whatever who visited the Pit a few times had just waited a year or so her message would have found better reception.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21614

Post by Steersman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:09 pm

MarcusAu wrote: My Dad always said that Guy Fawkes was the last man to enter parliament with honourable intentions.
:-) Not least for building a fire under the dead wood? So to speak ...

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21615

Post by Steersman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:11 pm

Shatterface wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to Kirb for that 'two cents' summary of the paper on population genetics.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
What? I don't even get an honourable mention for my contribution? ;-)

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21616

Post by rayshul » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:12 pm

Hasn't Trump's populist right not started telling the Islamicists to stfu and is starting to stop funding them? I don't think the left needs to do this. Just as it was a left wing group who got the first black president - most assumed you'd need a black republican candidate to make it to the white house - I think the right, in particularly the classical leftist types who've gone right, are starting to shape up to argue against Islam.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21617

Post by Lsuoma » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:24 pm

So, Macron has told Erdogan to fuck off wrt his chances of Turkey joining the EU.

Does that mean that Turkey is now going to release the Kraken of unlimited refugees to enter the EU. I'd be scared. Vary scared.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21618

Post by VickyCaramel » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Guest_3bc53337 wrote: Doesn't that prove JS Mill's point that you really don't understand your side of the argument if you have never actually had to encounter arguments against it?
Debating is a particular skill. I think most of us here could probably debate somebody like William Lane Craig because we have heard it all before and know exactly what tricks he is going to pull.

I think it is going to take a good number of debates against the Alt-Right before people have worked out exactly what sophistry is covering what fallacies.

If you remember back, lots of people were putting in sub-par performances against Lane-Craig and Sye-10 Defecate. A lot of the best work was done with post debate analysis. I don't suppose it will be different this time. However, I don't think Sargon will ever have the temperament for debating.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21619

Post by Old_ones » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:41 pm

Sunder wrote: I see talk of Western identitarianism as a short path to people honestly arguing that we need to all convert to Christianity. Lots of appeals to consequences and other ridiculousness flying around. It's honestly a bit surprising.

Maybe if that one lady with the 15 kids or whatever who visited the Pit a few times had just waited a year or so her message would have found better reception.
Jordan Peterson already stops just short of that. All of his talk about the need for meaning, and how the lack of religion leads to nihilism and totalitarianism seem to build to a conclusion that he never says outright.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21620

Post by Keating » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:44 pm

There's one thing that bugs me about the just do 'liberal democracy' position. It seems to strongly rely on the population sharing certain cultural values, and in particular, those values being aligned widely in the population. It seems to require a high-trust society. This manifests in many, many ways. For example, the people have to generally respect the environment and treat the commons reasonably well. The saves a huge amount of money in cleaning and maintenance. This could be legislated, of course, but enforcement is another cost. It's that all these costs can be kept relatively low that frees up lots of wealth to make the country seem prosperous. It has money to spend on luxuries.

I fear that if you dilute the culture too much, then you destroy all the 'hidden' values that support the whole society. I think we've got a double problem in the West. For lack of a better term, the elites are educated in a manner that is destructive to the society. This is the universities failing to perform their duty, and it means the leadership, where it exists, actually runs to destroy the values that allowed the society to prosper. Second problem is mass immigration. This increasingly dilutes the cultural values of the society at the lower levels.

I don't see a path for 'liberal democracies' to survive under the weight of this double whammy. In the meantime, I certainly advocate for dramatically limiting immigration and doing something to address the university problem. Long term, I don't see either happening in the coming decade, and I'm worried that even current levels are terminal. So, what do you do if you're pretty sure that society will collapse? Which life boat do you get in to? The Spencer position looks like a life boat, while Sargon appears to be arguing that society won't collapse.

The only way I see of preventing collapse is if the cultural values are restored - this is exactly what Jordan Peterson is trying to do. Spencer's life boat doesn't look very attractive at all, but does like the one most likely to survive.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21621

Post by Really? » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:46 pm

jet_lagg wrote: Between NewsRadio and facilitating Alex Jone's weed-induced tangent about extradimensional pedophiles secretly pulling the strings of American politics I have endless love for Rogan. He's not someone I tune in to for analysis though. Maybe if I actually gave a damn about MMA.
Seconded on all counts. No, Rogan is not one of our great thinkers, but he is at least curious and open-minded.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21622

Post by Steersman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:47 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
SM1957 wrote:
feathers wrote: The world has become too small and mixed up, so segregation is a nonsensical proposal. Just get used to each other.
I guess the idea of a city where only one religion is allowed to exist is just laughable in the 21st century.
Not laughable, but a source of many problems. The reason why Islam causes so much trouble is that some muslim elites still believe that they can take over the world and remake it at their image rather than seek a secular compromise. And the reason why those elites still believe in that bullshit is that they've been coddled and protected from the negative consequences of their actions. The US have nurtured and defended Saudi Arabian elites, treating them as people who must never be upset, instead of letting them get their asses kicked in the wars they wanted to start to take over the Middle East. The same thing happens with Salafism, it cannot be even criticized for fear of "islamophobia". Time to tell the bearded cunts to either change and be prepared to be left on their own, with no support, and to be punished severely legally and socially if they still promote their authoritarian theocratic model.
Indeed. Apropos of which, an interesting post - which I haven't done more than skim (natch) - that apparently rakes Nawaz over the coals:
Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Righ ... gainst Him

The honeymoon period between Maajid Nawaz and the nativist section of his base has inevitably ground to a halt. With this demographic, Nawaz had been celebrated in spite of him being an ethnically Asian Muslim. He was always going to be discarded as soon as he’d served his usefulness. While Quilliam’s relationship with Government had been parasitic, the relationship with the nationalists and white liberal Islamophobes had been symbiotic. The Islamophobes gave Nawaz an audience and therefore a qualified relevance and in return, Nawaz offered them a “some of my best friends are Muslim” Muslim token who validated their xenophobic ignorance, a panacea for guilt reflexes. ....
More than a bit of justification for arguing that Nawaz is speaking out of both sides of his mouth, something that Anjuli Pandavar alluded to several times. Although she subsequently offered him something of an apology that I never got a chance to read before Myers lowered the boom and cut off his own nose to spite his face by deleting all of her posts. But kind of expect she qualified that apology nine ways to Sunday.

<snip>

Kirbmarc wrote: This is madness, and it's the reason why the term "Regressive Left" exists. I'm still convinced that the vast majority of leftists AREN'T on board with supporting islam when it comes to its anti-progressive ideas, they simply don't care enough about the issues of islam to take a firm position and are convinced that they're saving poor oppressed people of color from the evil right-wing racists (which EXIST, and aren't making things better but acting like little Steersmen). But since the Christian right hates islam then reflexively the progressive tribe must defend islam, even if many don't understand why.
Go big or go home. I don't want to see any mere pretenders to the throne ... ;-)

But "reflexively the progressive tribe must defend Islam" hits the nail squarely on its head. A tweet or two from someone you (all) might want to consider following, not least for her Senate testimony on Canada's odious #M103 even if one might allude to the "it's an evil wind that blows no one any good ..." aphorism:




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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21623

Post by Shatterface » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Steersman wrote:
Shatterface wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to Kirb for that 'two cents' summary of the paper on population genetics.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
What? I don't even get an honourable mention for my contribution? ;-)
Fair do's, you both contributed to a fascinating conversation. A few days' Christmas downtime obviously refreshed your circuits.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21624

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:13 pm

VickyCaramel wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:11 am

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Those tyrants are just as likely to be traitors within our own ranks. If we act quickly, we don't need to spill any blood either. I am quite happy for communists and Islamists to have their freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, we just make it clear that they aren't allowed any power and they will never get their way.
I fear that Britain may be passed the point of no return. 20 years ago I was surprised at how little of the history of Britain was taught in schools. Politically aware school leavers complained to me about having to educate themselves about British history beyond the Evil Empire narrative. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think that the young in Britain are that educated about the philosophical/historical bases of Western liberal values. If that's true, then they aren't going to be aware enough of what they are losing to resist. Successive governments have been redefining Britishness as nothing more than living in Britain and accepting multiculturalism. When cultural clashes with white British norms occur, it appears to me that there has been a tendency to apply oppressor/oppressed logic and run a coach and horses through long established law and institutions. I don't know if there is enough 'Britishness' left to defend.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21625

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:20 pm

Keating wrote: There's one thing that bugs me about the just do 'liberal democracy' position. It seems to strongly rely on the population sharing certain cultural values, and in particular, those values being aligned widely in the population. It seems to require a high-trust society. This manifests in many, many ways. For example, the people have to generally respect the environment and treat the commons reasonably well. The saves a huge amount of money in cleaning and maintenance. This could be legislated, of course, but enforcement is another cost. It's that all these costs can be kept relatively low that frees up lots of wealth to make the country seem prosperous. It has money to spend on luxuries.

I fear that if you dilute the culture too much, then you destroy all the 'hidden' values that support the whole society. I think we've got a double problem in the West. For lack of a better term, the elites are educated in a manner that is destructive to the society. This is the universities failing to perform their duty, and it means the leadership, where it exists, actually runs to destroy the values that allowed the society to prosper. Second problem is mass immigration. This increasingly dilutes the cultural values of the society at the lower levels.

I don't see a path for 'liberal democracies' to survive under the weight of this double whammy. In the meantime, I certainly advocate for dramatically limiting immigration and doing something to address the university problem. Long term, I don't see either happening in the coming decade, and I'm worried that even current levels are terminal. So, what do you do if you're pretty sure that society will collapse? Which life boat do you get in to? The Spencer position looks like a life boat, while Sargon appears to be arguing that society won't collapse.

The only way I see of preventing collapse is if the cultural values are restored - this is exactly what Jordan Peterson is trying to do. Spencer's life boat doesn't look very attractive at all, but does like the one most likely to survive.
I think you're a bit too much of a catastrophist, to be fair. Liberal democracies have survived the crisis of the 1930s and the threats of totalitarianism from both the left and the right, I don't see why they should collapse because of a bunch of hipsters with ridiculous ideas and some imams financed by oil kingdoms which are close to financial breakdown.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21626

Post by Kirbmarc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:31 pm

rayshul wrote: Hasn't Trump's populist right not started telling the Islamicists to stfu and is starting to stop funding them?
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/1 ... ll-169.jpg

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/inte ... 0.h473.jpg

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21627

Post by Lsuoma » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:57 pm

Kate Steinle killer sentenced to three years, covered by time already served: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42583984

Apparently, he won't be released immediately though - he is still facing federal charges.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21628

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Kirb (and Steers) thanks for the genetics run down.

I guess (here is the expert speaking) the crux from Frau’s perspective is the definition of species and the genetic variation threshold required to propel one into a new label.

She sees the blacks apparently orders of magnitude removed form the general flow of other races, ergo “new species”

You say that because blacks and others can have children there is but one species. You also make a generalised statement that ‘there is nothing to suggest the variation is great enough to ...’ without actually holding the results to the blow torch of an objective standard.

You also note Neanderthals and humans successfully did the dirty. Despite being different species.

And then I read in another (non political) article:
Note that polar bears split from brown bears even more recently, but unlike humans and Neanderthals, polar bears are actually much closer relatives to some brown bears, than those brown bears are to other brown bears. The reason we classify them as a separate species has more to do with externally visible characteristics (the most dramatic of which is color, which is a pretty minor differentiator in the grand scheme of things).
Which as a greenhorn makes me think species and race are more arbitrary social construct than something you test for. Which gives Frau and the race debate all the subjective oxygen needed for a dandy fire.

Is that fair? That for all the complex testing and grouping research, race is really just a separate and arbitrary interpretative wrapper with no inherent authority or “reality” beyond the consensus achieved with whatever community you are discussing the topic with?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21629

Post by katamari Damassi » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:13 pm

Has anyone seen Dunkirk? I'm not getting the love for that movie. I found it dull, especially when compared to Their Darkest Hour-which I enjoyed much more. I suspect both will be up for oscars soon. Oldman definitely deserves Best Actor.

I also recommend Molly's Game though it does have some annoying Aaron Sorkin moments in it.

I'll be curious to see if PC fears result in the nothing special, but critically beloved Get Out receiving a Best Picture nomination. I was sad to see director Jordan Peele(who has a white mother, and a white wife)succumb race baiting when he said(paraphrase)"my people are so oppressed that my movie was only nominated for Best Comedy or Musical in the Golden Globe Awards."

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21630

Post by rayshul » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:14 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
rayshul wrote: Hasn't Trump's populist right not started telling the Islamicists to stfu and is starting to stop funding them?
That's amazing, a guy goes on a diplomatic mission and meets and talks to people. Even gets his photo taken with them! Woah such corruption. That's the same diplomatic mission where he told Muslims to stop fucking funding terror, right and to take a good hard look at themselves and the terrorists in their midst? Did you miss the recent bits where he's defunding Pakistan, supporting the Iranian protests, supporting Saudi's new prince and putting his embassy in Israel?

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21631

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: There's one thing that bugs me about the just do 'liberal democracy' position. It seems to strongly rely on the population sharing certain cultural values, and in particular, those values being aligned widely in the population. It seems to require a high-trust society. This manifests in many, many ways. For example, the people have to generally respect the environment and treat the commons reasonably well. The saves a huge amount of money in cleaning and maintenance. This could be legislated, of course, but enforcement is another cost. It's that all these costs can be kept relatively low that frees up lots of wealth to make the country seem prosperous. It has money to spend on luxuries.

I fear that if you dilute the culture too much, then you destroy all the 'hidden' values that support the whole society. I think we've got a double problem in the West. For lack of a better term, the elites are educated in a manner that is destructive to the society. This is the universities failing to perform their duty, and it means the leadership, where it exists, actually runs to destroy the values that allowed the society to prosper. Second problem is mass immigration. This increasingly dilutes the cultural values of the society at the lower levels.

I don't see a path for 'liberal democracies' to survive under the weight of this double whammy. In the meantime, I certainly advocate for dramatically limiting immigration and doing something to address the university problem. Long term, I don't see either happening in the coming decade, and I'm worried that even current levels are terminal. So, what do you do if you're pretty sure that society will collapse? Which life boat do you get in to? The Spencer position looks like a life boat, while Sargon appears to be arguing that society won't collapse.

The only way I see of preventing collapse is if the cultural values are restored - this is exactly what Jordan Peterson is trying to do. Spencer's life boat doesn't look very attractive at all, but does like the one most likely to survive.
I think you're a bit too much of a catastrophist, to be fair. Liberal democracies have survived the crisis of the 1930s and the threats of totalitarianism from both the left and the right, I don't see why they should collapse because of a bunch of hipsters with ridiculous ideas and some imams financed by oil kingdoms which are close to financial breakdown.
Those imams have already pretty much demographically broken major western cities, terrorism has destroyed simple freedoms. The ridiculous hipsters are the warg riders of your unrestrained liberalism which has cleared the market square ready for third party occupation. I refer you back to the article I posted yesterday ... or any newspaper on any day of the week.

Brive1987
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21632

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:20 pm

katamari Damassi wrote: Has anyone seen Dunkirk? I'm not getting the love for that movie. I found it dull, especially when compared to Their Darkest Hour-which I enjoyed much more. I suspect both will be up for oscars soon. Oldman definitely deserves Best Actor.

I also recommend Molly's Game though it does have some annoying Aaron Sorkin moments in it.

I'll be curious to see if PC fears result in the nothing special, but critically beloved Get Out receiving a Best Picture nomination. I was sad to see director Jordan Peele(who has a white mother, and a white wife)succumb race baiting when he said(paraphrase)"my people are so oppressed that my movie was only nominated for Best Comedy or Musical in the Golden Globe Awards."
It received valid criticism for its gender imbalance. And I found it historically sterile.

Harry almost turned me though.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21633

Post by BoxNDox » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:22 pm

Bhurzum wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:32 pm
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Rogan's no prize, either.
Thank fuck, I thought I was the only one! Rogan, for all of his smug pontifications, is still an air-headed muppet who only recently dropped his belief in flat-Earth theory. He routinely makes fun of one of his regular guests (surname Bravo, can't remember first name) because he's a full-on tinfoil hatted conspiritard and yet Rogan himself was exactly the same until recently. I think the dude has taken a few too many kicks to the head...or not enough.
There's a sweet spot...

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21634

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:31 pm

Bhurzum wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Rogan's no prize, either.
Thank fuck, I thought I was the only one! Rogan, for all of his smug pontifications, is still an air-headed muppet who only recently dropped his belief in flat-Earth theory. He routinely makes fun of one of his regular guests (surname Bravo, can't remember first name) because he's a full-on tinfoil hatted conspiritard and yet Rogan himself was exactly the same until recently. I think the dude has taken a few too many kicks to the head...or not enough.
Rogan's one of those hyper freaks with such extreme inner turbulence they try so intensely to be mellow, they agitate everyone else around them. Continually bouncing off the wall, they pick up a hobby or a cause, get incredibly intense & fanatical about it, ruin that hobby or cause for others, before ricocheting off to the next obsession.

Rogan advocates legalizing hard drugs. In his case, I'd mandate it.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21635

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:34 pm

katamari Damassi wrote: Has anyone seen Dunkirk? I'm not getting the love for that movie. I found it dull, especially when compared to Their Darkest Hour-which I enjoyed much more. I suspect both will be up for oscars soon. Oldman definitely deserves Best Actor.
Well it was made by that mega-douchebag, Christopher Nolan, so it must suck the big patootie.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21636

Post by katamari Damassi » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:08 pm

So Sargon had some bad Rogan Josh?

Brive1987
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21637

Post by Brive1987 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:14 pm

:lol: :lol:

Braid-pics are an alt-right reward


Service Dog
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21638

Post by Service Dog » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:20 pm

deLurch wrote:
Service Dog wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:25 am
https://galoremag.com/wp-content/upload ... re_mag.jpg

Won't someone please think of the underpriviledged models?
https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/zip/ ... 90537.html
:violin: :violin: :violin: :violin: :violin: :violin:
Craigslist? Looking for addresses & contact information of shitty models. This is either a stepping stone to an outright scam, or pure marketing for their products to desperate people looking to get ahead.
Howabout this one...

https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/zip/ ... 34711.html

Keating
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21639

Post by Keating » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:20 pm
I think you're a bit too much of a catastrophist, to be fair. Liberal democracies have survived the crisis of the 1930s and the threats of totalitarianism from both the left and the right, I don't see why they should collapse because of a bunch of hipsters with ridiculous ideas and some imams financed by oil kingdoms which are close to financial breakdown.
Maybe, it's certainly possible. I just don't see how I am wrong long term. It might not happen in my lifetime, but every indication is that we're on a decline, and I don't see a good argument against that.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21640

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:54 pm

rayshul wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:14 pm
Kirbmarc wrote:
rayshul wrote: Hasn't Trump's populist right not started telling the Islamicists to stfu and is starting to stop funding them?
That's amazing, a guy goes on a diplomatic mission and meets and talks to people. Even gets his photo taken with them! Woah such corruption. That's the same diplomatic mission where he told Muslims to stop fucking funding terror, right and to take a good hard look at themselves and the terrorists in their midst? Did you miss the recent bits where he's defunding Pakistan, supporting the Iranian protests, supporting Saudi's new prince and putting his embassy in Israel?
I really hope he knows what he is doing with Pakistan. They are a nuclear power with very insecure assets, in part because they already don't trust the US and move nukes around to hide them from the US as much as from anybody. It seems to me to be better to have them pay lip service to Western interests than to turn them into outright enemies . Who knows what shit they would cause in Afghanistan and who would benefit from their nuke technology and having nukes, military options for bringing them into line may be more limited than Trump imagines.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21641

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:01 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:18 pm
Those imams have already pretty much demographically broken major western cities, terrorism has destroyed simple freedoms. The ridiculous hipsters are the warg riders of your unrestrained liberalism which has cleared the market square ready for third party occupation. I refer you back to the article I posted yesterday ... or any newspaper on any day of the week.

The problem is failure to apply the principles of secular liberalism. The problem is that freedom of speech and equality before the law have not been held sacrosanct.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21642

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:18 pm

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
I really hope he knows what he is doing with Pakistan. They are a nuclear power with very insecure assets, in part because they already don't trust the US and move nukes around to hide them from the US as much as from anybody. It seems to me to be better to have them pay lip service to Western interests than to turn them into outright enemies . Who knows what shit they would cause in Afghanistan and who would benefit from their nuke technology and having nukes, military options for bringing them into line may be more limited than Trump imagines.
Pakistan also has a balance of modernist and Taliban-like salafists, the latter having a grip on the security services and the military. Trump may be handing ammunition to the factions that want to turn back any progress that Pakistan has made toward democracy and 21st century progress.
When Trump tweeted support to the recent protests in Iran the support withered almost immediately. I think Khamenei and the Revolutionary Guard should thank him for helping them to squash their opposition.

Guest_d2e60302

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21643

Post by Guest_d2e60302 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm



Mic and "gay community" go after some dude's instagram where he posts pics of "cis white men" he thinks are hot. He doesn't post pics of anyone of color, and all his pics are of dudes in shape (no thick dudes).

This is a crime.

Instead of creating other instagram pages of hot dudes they like, they decide it's better to have this conversation of how this guy is oppressing gays.

Regardless, they don't post pics of old men, or fat men, or Lindy West even.

Steersman
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21644

Post by Steersman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm

Shatterface wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Shatterface wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to Kirb for that 'two cents' summary of the paper on population genetics.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
What? I don't even get an honourable mention for my contribution? ;-)
Fair do's, you both contributed to a fascinating conversation. A few days' Christmas downtime obviously refreshed your circuits.
Thanks – always willing and, hopefully, able to pay my just dues. And the Christmas downtime was entirely welcome – and quite necessary: thank Christ for Christmas, so to speak. :-)

But quite agree on the “fascinating conversation”, not least because it highlights some problematic misconceptions and fuzzy thinking by many in both the “Left” and the “Right”, even, apparently and at least to some extent, by some here. I had taken a look at several of the videos linked to by both deLurch and Vicky related to Kraut & Tea’s rather misguided efforts to refute the claims of “race realists”. Kind of interesting to see so many raking K&T over the coals – notably Justicar – such that he even deleted one of his videos, helpfully reposted here for posterity.

And, more particularly regarding the misconceptions & fuzzy thinking, it seems that K&T among many wish to deny that there is any validity at all in the concept of race and therefore that there can not be any differences – on average – between them particularly in the area of “intelligence”, while many “race realists” seem to be of the view that that average difference in intelligence bestows on them some justified claim to being superior to all members of those other races. Which, in both cases, is so much moonshine, at best.

While there is maybe some cause for such misconceptions – decidedly difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff – it is hard not to conclude that scientism or “feelz before realz”, in the one case, and bigotry, in the other, are among the contributing factors. Think a passage in one of the videos Vicky linked to by one Shinobi Yaka (kind of amusing to hear Yaka, presumably Japanese, speaking clipped and stiff-upper-lip English), quoting Sam Harris, hits the nail on the head (starting at about 19:03):
Harris wrote:… people don’t want to hear that average IQ differs across races and ethnic groups. Now for better or worse these are all facts. In fact there is almost nothing in psychological science for which there is more evidence than these claims about IQ, about the validity of testing for it, about its importance in the real world, about its inheritability, and about its differential expression in different populations. …. [the nub of the matter:] There is much more variance among individuals in any racial group than there is between groups. So besides being unethical and politically imprudent, it is totally irrational to treat people as anything other than individuals.
And it’s that bit about variance between and among groups that seems the crux of the matter. I have periodically addressed the same issue, most recently in relation to Damore’s “Manifesto”, through the analogy with heights:
Mathematica_PopHghtCompare_2A_Sctn.JPG
(29.95 KiB) Downloaded 185 times
In the above, there’s a variance of 10 cm (about 4 inches) between the average heights of men and women, but there’s a much greater variance of 40 to 50 cm (plus & minus 5 standard deviations) within each population. Similarly with intelligence where I seem to recollect seeing, generally, less than a standard deviation difference among various races.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics – decidedly problematic that so many are unclear about the differences between individuals and populations, not least because it gives free rein to those with an axe to grind. Although I think Harris may be discounting the effects of economic hardship, particularly in African countries, on depressed intelligence scores.

In any case, I kind of hope that this issue helps discredit many in both the Left and the Right or at least disabuse them of some fuzzy thinking which tends to add more heat than light to various discussions.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21645

Post by deLurch » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:31 pm
rayshul wrote: Hasn't Trump's populist right not started telling the Islamicists to stfu and is starting to stop funding them?
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/1 ... ll-169.jpg

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/inte ... 0.h473.jpg
Personally, I don't know what the fuck went down in Saudi Arabia with all of the royals detained. I would hope that the regressive holy rollers were put in their place and the whole terrorism thing is being taken seriously. I am in a wait and see pattern right now.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21646

Post by Sunder » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:42 pm

You know when Aneris went a bit loopy for a bit I found it wasn't possible to put Pit mods on ignore for a bit while they get their shit together. Didn't think it would be a problem again so soon.

Fuck, maybe I'm the one who needs a break from here.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21647

Post by deLurch » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:53 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:14 pm
:lol: :lol:
Braid-pics are an alt-right reward
Only a Russian could be that utilitarian about her braids.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21648

Post by deLurch » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Service Dog wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:20 pm
Howabout this one...
https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/zip/ ... 34711.html
Either a pedophile, or a very lonely man.

The only category that would be acceptable would be an old man who has completed his life, retired and is kicking around for some way to waste his time and make people happy. Kind of like the old man who plays spoons at every community festival/parade.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21649

Post by deLurch » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Service Dog wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:20 pm
Howabout this one...
https://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/zip/ ... 34711.html
Either a pedophile, or a very lonely man.

The only category that would be acceptable would be an old man who has completed his life, retired and is kicking around for some way to waste his time and make people happy. Kind of like the old man who plays spoons at every community festival/parade.


deLurch
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21651

Post by deLurch » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:33 pm


Mic and "gay community" go after some dude's instagram where he posts pics of "cis white men" he thinks are hot. He doesn't post pics of anyone of color, and all his pics are of dudes in shape (no thick dudes).

This is a crime.

Instead of creating other instagram pages of hot dudes they like, they decide it's better to have this conversation of how this guy is oppressing gays.

Regardless, they don't post pics of old men, or fat men, or Lindy West even.
The obvious and only true answer is every gay man decides for themselves what they think is sexy.

This guy is only getting shit because his Instagram became popular because his personal preferences as to what he considers sexy matches many other people's personal preferences. To each their own.

John D
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21652

Post by John D » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Fuck! I just spent the last hour telling my wife that the kids and I would NOT be better off if she killed herself. I told her it was wrong thinking, and cowardly, and that the kids would blame themselves for her death. Her reply was that her death would allow the kids and I to get on with our life. Of course, our kids already have their own life and are not dependent on her. I do spend a great deal of my time caring for her... and our relationship is not very fun most of the time.

I said I would help her work with the doctor to try some meds like Prozac. She just started to cry and said she was already taking boxes full of pills. Unfortunately, she is not wrong about this. She had the day off work today due to the cold weather, and spent the last 36 hours in bed with her pill bottles spread on the blanket.

I think her menopause is fucking with her hormones. She has had depression her whole life tied to her menstrual cycle. I have been hoping her menopause would help but it has made things worse.

I am puzzled about the best thing to do now. I am tempted to get my adult children involved, but I don't want to burden them with such a difficult problem. They have their own problems to solve. They may be able to actually help however.

On the positive side, my wife is very comfort seeking. I am somewhat secure in the idea that she will not be energetic enough to actually take her own life. Over the years we have had many bouts of her being depressed.... and they ultimately just passed. Maybe I just monitor this and see if it passes. Of course, I could come home from work one day to find a corpse.

Really?
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21653

Post by Really? » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:

Mic and "gay community" go after some dude's instagram where he posts pics of "cis white men" he thinks are hot. He doesn't post pics of anyone of color, and all his pics are of dudes in shape (no thick dudes).

This is a crime.

Instead of creating other instagram pages of hot dudes they like, they decide it's better to have this conversation of how this guy is oppressing gays.

Regardless, they don't post pics of old men, or fat men, or Lindy West even.
Wow. Mic is worthless. I would like to see every person who is complaining be forced to fuck the ugliest, fattest person we can find to prove they aren't a hypocrite.

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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21654

Post by Shatterface » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:13 pm

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:

Mic and "gay community" go after some dude's instagram where he posts pics of "cis white men" he thinks are hot. He doesn't post pics of anyone of color, and all his pics are of dudes in shape (no thick dudes).

This is a crime.

Instead of creating other instagram pages of hot dudes they like, they decide it's better to have this conversation of how this guy is oppressing gays.

Regardless, they don't post pics of old men, or fat men, or Lindy West even.
Bet he didn't post pictures of women either, the misogynistic cunt.

Lsuoma
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21655

Post by Lsuoma » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:16 pm

John D wrote: Fuck! I just spent the last hour telling my wife that the kids and I would NOT be better off if she killed herself. I told her it was wrong thinking, and cowardly, and that the kids would blame themselves for her death. Her reply was that her death would allow the kids and I to get on with our life. Of course, our kids already have their own life and are not dependent on her. I do spend a great deal of my time caring for her... and our relationship is not very fun most of the time.

I said I would help her work with the doctor to try some meds like Prozac. She just started to cry and said she was already taking boxes full of pills. Unfortunately, she is not wrong about this. She had the day off work today due to the cold weather, and spent the last 36 hours in bed with her pill bottles spread on the blanket.

I think her menopause is fucking with her hormones. She has had depression her whole life tied to her menstrual cycle. I have been hoping her menopause would help but it has made things worse.

I am puzzled about the best thing to do now. I am tempted to get my adult children involved, but I don't want to burden them with such a difficult problem. They have their own problems to solve. They may be able to actually help however.

On the positive side, my wife is very comfort seeking. I am somewhat secure in the idea that she will not be energetic enough to actually take her own life. Over the years we have had many bouts of her being depressed.... and they ultimately just passed. Maybe I just monitor this and see if it passes. Of course, I could come home from work one day to find a corpse.
Fucking hell, John, that's not good (in case you hadn't spotted that yet). If you do go and get any SSRIs or SNRIs please be careful. They carry a heightened risk of suicide in early stages, since they can add more motivation and purpose earlier than any general mood effect kicking in.

It does sound as though she may be seeking more feelings of being valued after the kids having grown up, hence her comments about you and they being able to get on with their lives.

What pills is she scarfing down at present? That's important to know.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21656

Post by free thoughtpolice » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:26 pm

I said I would help her work with the doctor to try some meds like Prozac
A layman's opinion:
Go with her to her Dr. and support her. Check out the meds she is already taking and look for side effects and possible cross counteractions to see if this is causing problems and ask if she could benefit from a specialist.
Talk to the kids without telegraphing too much trauma and encourage them to support their mom getting some help.
Good luck.

John D
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21657

Post by John D » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:29 pm

Lsuoma wrote:
John D wrote: Fuck! I just spent the last hour telling my wife that the kids and I would NOT be better off if she killed herself. I told her it was wrong thinking, and cowardly, and that the kids would blame themselves for her death. Her reply was that her death would allow the kids and I to get on with our life. Of course, our kids already have their own life and are not dependent on her. I do spend a great deal of my time caring for her... and our relationship is not very fun most of the time.

I said I would help her work with the doctor to try some meds like Prozac. She just started to cry and said she was already taking boxes full of pills. Unfortunately, she is not wrong about this. She had the day off work today due to the cold weather, and spent the last 36 hours in bed with her pill bottles spread on the blanket.

I think her menopause is fucking with her hormones. She has had depression her whole life tied to her menstrual cycle. I have been hoping her menopause would help but it has made things worse.

I am puzzled about the best thing to do now. I am tempted to get my adult children involved, but I don't want to burden them with such a difficult problem. They have their own problems to solve. They may be able to actually help however.

On the positive side, my wife is very comfort seeking. I am somewhat secure in the idea that she will not be energetic enough to actually take her own life. Over the years we have had many bouts of her being depressed.... and they ultimately just passed. Maybe I just monitor this and see if it passes. Of course, I could come home from work one day to find a corpse.
Fucking hell, John, that's not good (in case you hadn't spotted that yet). If you do go and get any SSRIs or SNRIs please be careful. They carry a heightened risk of suicide in early stages, since they can add more motivation and purpose earlier than any general mood effect kicking in.

It does sound as though she may be seeking more feelings of being valued after the kids having grown up, hence her comments about you and they being able to get on with their lives.

What pills is she scarfing down at present? That's important to know.
She is taking Cymbalta and Lyrica for her Fibromyalgia. These have had the side effect of helping her mood in the past... not so much any more. If she goes off these her pain spikes so bad she stays in bed and cries.

She is on a blood thinner, aspirin, and a statin for her heart disease. She already has four artery stents. Both her sisters and her brother have had open heart surgery. One sister is bed ridden and immobile from a stroke.

She is on some kind of water pill as well.... and some other shit the doc put her on. He wanted to put her on more meds but she refused.

To top it off she has had some kind of contact dermatitis and breaks out in hives about every two days across large parts of her body. She scratches so much she sometimes tears little holes in her skin (but I guess that stops the itching). Benedril is the only thing that helps the itch.... and it causes her to just sleep.... for a day.

It's a shit show and I don't blame her for being down. She is only 53.

Thanks for the advice on the SSRIs and SNRIs.

katamari Damassi
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21658

Post by katamari Damassi » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:36 pm

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:

Mic and "gay community" go after some dude's instagram where he posts pics of "cis white men" he thinks are hot. He doesn't post pics of anyone of color, and all his pics are of dudes in shape (no thick dudes).

This is a crime.

Instead of creating other instagram pages of hot dudes they like, they decide it's better to have this conversation of how this guy is oppressing gays.

Regardless, they don't post pics of old men, or fat men, or Lindy West even.
"Who gets to decide what's "sexy" in the gay community?" Apparently it's not up to individuals anymore but the central committee. Twenty years ago the "gay community" was known for body fascism. It was born out of the AIDS epidemic of the 80's. Gay men started hitting the gym and steroids because they wanted you to know that they weren't wasting away with AIDS. Since then, I'd say that we've come along way, and are much more accepting of all body types even if we have specific types that we're attracted to. This is mostly thanks to protease inhibitors and bear culture. Dan Savage once wrote that when men are young they don't date the people they like but the people their friends like, because it's all about status. If you were attracted to chunky girls, you pursued thin girls because that's what your friends were into. Around the time you hit your thirties you stopped caring about impressing your friends and went after the type of girls you liked. I think gays get over this sooner than straights. I've been rejected by guys I thought were hot because I wasn't overweight, or because I wasn't old enough(a couple of years ago, in my mid-forties at the time). There are still bitchy gays who will insult the old or those without gym bods, but they're generally regarded as assholes. But the non-socjus infected among us accept that we have types, and that's okay. If you don't have a type then what's the point of even being gay? Why not date trans, or even women?


katamari Damassi
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Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#21660

Post by katamari Damassi » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:44 pm

John D wrote: She is taking Cymbalta and Lyrica for her Fibromyalgia. These have had the side effect of helping her mood in the past... not so much any more. If she goes off these her pain spikes so bad she stays in bed and cries.

She is on a blood thinner, aspirin, and a statin for her heart disease. She already has four artery stents. Both her sisters and her brother have had open heart surgery. One sister is bed ridden and immobile from a stroke.

She is on some kind of water pill as well.... and some other shit the doc put her on. He wanted to put her on more meds but she refused.

To top it off she has had some kind of contact dermatitis and breaks out in hives about every two days across large parts of her body. She scratches so much she sometimes tears little holes in her skin (but I guess that stops the itching). Benedril is the only thing that helps the itch.... and it causes her to just sleep.... for a day.

It's a shit show and I don't blame her for being down. She is only 53.

Thanks for the advice on the SSRIs and SNRIs.
If it's not contraindicated by her other meds, any oral anti-histamine should help with the itching, maybe try some that are non-drowsy, or there is topical benadryl that should help without knocking her out. If that doesn't stop the itching then ask her doc about a cortisone cream.

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