There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

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Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3781

Post by Shatterface »

If you don't vote Corbyn you murdered St Jo Cox


Barbie's Boyfriend
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3782

Post by Barbie's Boyfriend »

Fuck "Full Retard", nobody should EVER go FULL MCINTOSH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQFgEMfeK1c

piginthecity
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3783

Post by piginthecity »

Brive1987 wrote: The first half of the Sam Harris /Russell Brand convo was a compelling clash of personalities. Before it wandered off into the spiritual.

I’m still trying to figure out who Brand is on the credibility front.
Yeah - I've just watched the Brand/Peterson interview. Brand was actually a good interviewer (despite some of his words being one size too big for him as has already been pointed out), and it was a good conversation. It's a good conversation for people who are not familiar to JP to listen to, because he explains what he's really about.

Brand didn't seem adversarial at all, although he did try to steer Peterson away from 'psychological' explanations of inequality and towards Brands favoured 'Structural' explanations.

I don't suppose Brand's 'woke' fans would have liked it very much. Although, if they've bought all the bullshit about JP they might have thought it a victory because Peterson didn't espouse his well-known opinions that women are inferior and that Trans people aren't human. Or maybe they would just be happy with the fact that 'their champion' was exchanging long words with the scary bogeyman and having a conversation as equals.

Brand is an interesting character. He is capable of thoughtfulness and self-reflection. But he's still got his demagoguic streak and seems happy to embrace the authoritarianism of the SocJus.

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3784

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:02 am
Really? wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:25 pm
Really? wrote: If you believe it was unfair for Hillary to lose votes because people found confirmation that she rigged the primary
Hillary didn't rig the primary. Don't be a fucking retard.
I suppose you are right. It isn't as though she literally bought the party and had control over every decision it made or anything.
She must have bought it after 2008, when the DNC did for real rig the primaries -- against her.

But you had to go there, didn't you ?

Exactly. She purchased control of the party in 2015, well before any ballots were cast. She had control over hiring, communications, everything.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3785

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Really? wrote: Exactly. She purchased control of the party in 2015, well before any ballots were cast. She had control over hiring, communications, everything.
I don't think you know how political parties work.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3786

Post by Kirbmarc »

piginthecity wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: The first half of the Sam Harris /Russell Brand convo was a compelling clash of personalities. Before it wandered off into the spiritual.

I’m still trying to figure out who Brand is on the credibility front.
Yeah - I've just watched the Brand/Peterson interview. Brand was actually a good interviewer (despite some of his words being one size too big for him as has already been pointed out), and it was a good conversation. It's a good conversation for people who are not familiar to JP to listen to, because he explains what he's really about.

Brand didn't seem adversarial at all, although he did try to steer Peterson away from 'psychological' explanations of inequality and towards Brands favoured 'Structural' explanations.

I don't suppose Brand's 'woke' fans would have liked it very much. Although, if they've bought all the bullshit about JP they might have thought it a victory because Peterson didn't espouse his well-known opinions that women are inferior and that Trans people aren't human. Or maybe they would just be happy with the fact that 'their champion' was exchanging long words with the scary bogeyman and having a conversation as equals.

Brand is an interesting character. He is capable of thoughtfulness and self-reflection. But he's still got his demagoguic streak and seems happy to embrace the authoritarianism of the SocJus.
Personally I can see the appeal of Peterson, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything, and I can't see that appeal of Brand, even though I agree with him on a lot of things. Brand seems confused, he's prone to Gish Gallops, and can't seem to able to stick to one point. His opinions range from bland cultural relativism to flights of fancy to justify his positions. He actually seems a bit like a caricature of a leftist pothead. Many times, while I was listening to his interview with Harris, I kept asking myself what was Brand trying to say, and wishing he would quit beating around the bush.

Peterson may have weird and philosophically or scientifically unsound ideas but he's far better at expressing them. I can follow his arguments just fine, they're just weird.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3787

Post by Tigzy »

Kirbmarc wrote: Peterson may have weird and philosophically or scientifically unsound ideas but he's far better at expressing them. I can follow his arguments just fine, they're just weird.
I feel largely the same way about Peterson. However, I think a major aspect of his present appeal is that he is blunt, scathing and unapologetic in his criticism of the left-wing establishment - and he expressed as such on a major media platform in the face of a completely hapless left-leaning interviewer. A lot of people have been wanting to see the media left get taken down a peg or two for a long time - and Peterson delivered it in spades.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3788

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Kirbmarc wrote: Personally I can see the appeal of Peterson, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything,
Pretty much everything? Examples, please.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3789

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Kirbmarc wrote: Personally I can see the appeal of Peterson, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything,
Pretty much everything? Examples, please.

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3790

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:51 am
Really? wrote: Exactly. She purchased control of the party in 2015, well before any ballots were cast. She had control over hiring, communications, everything.
I don't think you know how political parties work.
Perhaps you missed the news.


Brazile took over the DNC as interim chair following Debbie Wasserman Schultz's sudden resignation during the Democratic National Convention. Once she was at the party's helm, Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3791

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Really? wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:51 am
Really? wrote: Exactly. She purchased control of the party in 2015, well before any ballots were cast. She had control over hiring, communications, everything.
I don't think you know how political parties work.
Perhaps you missed the news.


Brazile took over the DNC as interim chair following Debbie Wasserman Schultz's sudden resignation during the Democratic National Convention. Once she was at the party's helm, Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."
You believe Donna Brazile, a serial liar and fabulist, long-time sworn enemy of the the Clintons, who masterminding Al Gore's brilliant campaign, who in 2008 was instrumental in shifting votes cast for HRC to obama, and who is only ever concerned about promoting her own fat, lard-smeared self.

To promote her egotistical book, Brazile greatly exaggerated the ramifications of that funding deal. cf.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... al-n817411

Follow the link to read the innocuous agreement.

If Hillary 'owned' the entire DNC, why did Brazile believe she had the power to remove Hillary as the nominee by fiat and anoint Biden?

Again, you have no fucking clue how political parties function.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3792

Post by Kirbmarc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Personally I can see the appeal of Peterson, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything,
Pretty much everything? Examples, please.
The philosophical foundations of his arguments are the biggest reason why I disagree with him, especially his loopy concept of "truth" as "what is useful for survival in a Darwinian sense". I'll elaborate on this later since I don't have much time now, but Peterson deeply misunderstands Darwinian evolution to come up with his ideas.

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3793

Post by shoutinghorse »

"why should you be allowed to have breakfast" ... :lol:


Shatterface
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3794

Post by Shatterface »

Brand comes across like he's got ADHD. When he quit drugs I think one of them was Ritalin. He should go back on it.

paddybrown
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3795

Post by paddybrown »

Ain't seen Black Panther, and have superhero movie fatigue so I probably won't. Leaving aside the whole race thing, from the advance publicity it just seems so very American, using other parts of the world as a backdrop to a purely American story about American issues. I wonder what Africans will make of it?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3796

Post by paddybrown »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:34 pm
A slight change of topic. The phenomena that is political dynasties that occurs in the US and Canada at least (I'm not sure if this as bad in Yurp) is poison to democracy. We have second Trudeau in power in Canada that is mainly there because of his last name. The Conservatives have Carolyn Mulroney, daughter of ex disaster PM Lyin' Brian as a contender for their leadership.
In the US you have the Kennedy family, the Bushes, the Clintons.
Wasn't a linchpin of modern democracy getting rid of passing power through hereditary lines?
In the UK, Tory heir apparent Jacob Rees-Mogg is the son of William Rees-Mogg, not a politician but former editor of The Times, chairman of the Arts Council and vice-chairman of the BBC. Private Eye used to call him "William Really Smug", and "Mystic Mogg" because his political predictions always turned out to be hilariously inaccurate. One potential advantage of Rees-Mogg the younger becoming Prime Minister is that protest marches could chant "Moggie Moggie Moggie! Out Out Out!" which would be nostaligically fun.

Meanwhile, in the Labour Party, one of the most prominent Blairites is Hilary Benn, son of Comrade Corbyn's old mentor Tony Benn, formerly Viscount Stansgate.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3797

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Any details on the Sargon v. Sticky Dicky debate?

Dicky has said he, of course, could've done a much better job debating Sargon than Thomas Smith. As usual, Dicky has some choice insults for his (future) interlocutor:
Sargon... exhibits no empathy for other human beings and is committed to never becoming a better person, and would mock even the suggestion that he wasn’t already perfect and his ideology unassailable and thus no change in himself can ever be warranted. This is why he is unreachable....

... his bizarre ideology and basic failings at logical reasoning and empathy, and his constant rage and disgust and contempt (emotions that drove everything he said, rather than evidence or reason), are so clearly and efficiently on display ....

... Sargon is an awful person with whom no rational dialogue is possible....

... a weird cult guru and his fanatics ignore logic and civility and human compassion....

... who is in numerous ways akin to the Rush Limbaugh ....

... It illustrates the difference between actually caring about and pursuing the goal set forth explicitly by MythCon, and shitting all over it, as Sargon did....

... Sargon’s rage, rhetoric, and dishonest, disingenuous, and populist carnival barker tactics on stage, rightly communicate what sort of person he really is.....

... His fundamental disrespect of Smith and other people he abuses displays a complete lack of empathy or concern for human feelings or the truth....

... Sargon lacks any real respect for truth or logic or people.
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13327

Oglebart
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3798

Post by Oglebart »

piginthecity wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: The first half of the Sam Harris /Russell Brand convo was a compelling clash of personalities. Before it wandered off into the spiritual.

I’m still trying to figure out who Brand is on the credibility front.
Yeah - I've just watched the Brand/Peterson interview. Brand was actually a good interviewer (despite some of his words being one size too big for him as has already been pointed out), and it was a good conversation. It's a good conversation for people who are not familiar to JP to listen to, because he explains what he's really about.

Brand didn't seem adversarial at all, although he did try to steer Peterson away from 'psychological' explanations of inequality and towards Brands favoured 'Structural' explanations.

I don't suppose Brand's 'woke' fans would have liked it very much. Although, if they've bought all the bullshit about JP they might have thought it a victory because Peterson didn't espouse his well-known opinions that women are inferior and that Trans people aren't human. Or maybe they would just be happy with the fact that 'their champion' was exchanging long words with the scary bogeyman and having a conversation as equals.

Brand is an interesting character. He is capable of thoughtfulness and self-reflection. But he's still got his demagoguic streak and seems happy to embrace the authoritarianism of the SocJus.
I used to be a fan of Brand when he first broke through, he had a radio show on 6 music for 2 hours on a Sunday morning which really was funny, I even went and saw his live stand up show twice, in Bristol and Bournemouth. He then went full on famous, with Hollywood movies and the Katy Perry marriage. Since then on returning to the UK and inserting himself into political debate I've found him to be an irritating, unbearable wanker. It's true he wasn't that bad in this JP interview and I found it an interesting video, but Brand is fucking hard work to listen to at times. I guess he thinks the flowery verbiage is almost some sort of trademark, and clearly lots of people must like it, but for me, less would be more.

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3799

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:27 am
Really? wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:51 am
Really? wrote: Exactly. She purchased control of the party in 2015, well before any ballots were cast. She had control over hiring, communications, everything.
I don't think you know how political parties work.
Perhaps you missed the news.


Brazile took over the DNC as interim chair following Debbie Wasserman Schultz's sudden resignation during the Democratic National Convention. Once she was at the party's helm, Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."
You believe Donna Brazile, a serial liar and fabulist, long-time sworn enemy of the the Clintons, who masterminding Al Gore's brilliant campaign, who in 2008 was instrumental in shifting votes cast for HRC to obama, and who is only ever concerned about promoting her own fat, lard-smeared self.

To promote her egotistical book, Brazile greatly exaggerated the ramifications of that funding deal. cf.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... al-n817411

Follow the link to read the innocuous agreement.

If Hillary 'owned' the entire DNC, why did Brazile believe she had the power to remove Hillary as the nominee by fiat and anoint Biden?

Again, you have no fucking clue how political parties function.
I don't need to believe Brazile. I've read the document that was included in the link you ignored.

You are similarly mistaken about Brazile believing she could replace Hillary by "fiat."
Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated setting in motion a process to replace Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Have you considered that you're the one who doesn't know how political parties work, particularly because you seem to think they are at all on the level?

InfraRedBucket
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3800

Post by InfraRedBucket »

paddybrown wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:34 pm
A slight change of topic. The phenomena that is political dynasties that occurs in the US and Canada at least (I'm not sure if this as bad in Yurp) is poison to democracy. We have second Trudeau in power in Canada that is mainly there because of his last name. The Conservatives have Carolyn Mulroney, daughter of ex disaster PM Lyin' Brian as a contender for their leadership.
In the US you have the Kennedy family, the Bushes, the Clintons.
Wasn't a linchpin of modern democracy getting rid of passing power through hereditary lines?
In the UK, Tory heir apparent Jacob Rees-Mogg is the son of William Rees-Mogg, not a politician but former editor of The Times, chairman of the Arts Council and vice-chairman of the BBC. Private Eye used to call him "William Really Smug", and "Mystic Mogg" because his political predictions always turned out to be hilariously inaccurate. One potential advantage of Rees-Mogg the younger becoming Prime Minister is that protest marches could chant "Moggie Moggie Moggie! Out Out Out!" which would be nostaligically fun.

Meanwhile, in the Labour Party, one of the most prominent Blairites is Hilary Benn, son of Comrade Corbyn's old mentor Tony Benn, formerly Viscount Stansgate.
Benn Sr , famously against the hereditary principle described it thus (if I recall correctly) :

A plane is about to take off, you ask "is the pilot experienced?
"No, but his father was"

But later Benn's other son in 2014, took the title he renounced in 1963:
Tony Benn's eldest son, Stephen, has inherited the title that his father renounced in 1963 and become the 3rd Viscount Stansgate
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tle-father

rayshul
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3801

Post by rayshul »

I've been arguing on the internet again since Black Panther came up. It's amazing because I don't often tangle with the left and their views are so nutbar racist it's virtually impossible for me to comprehend.

The left, from what I've seen so far, believes
  • Black people have only ever been shown as criminals in movies
    Black children need to have black role models and cannot be inspired by white people
    The only purpose for letting black people or women in anything is to have them inspire black children and women, otherwise why bother, which is some next level diversity hire thought
    The best role model for black children is surely a walled off ethnostate which is hilariously fictional
    We wuz Kangs
I've run through some insane logic puzzles and I do think now I was right when I exited the left all those years ago... they only see colour. They want people of a certain colour to only associate with those people. Cross pollination of cultures and judging someone by the content of their character... that's wwwascist. It's amazing.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3802

Post by rayshul »

Also these people are literally teaching children.

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3803

Post by shoutinghorse »

Not forgetting the Johnson dynasty.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Foreign Secretary and Conservative MP for Henley.
Joseph Edmund "Jo" Johnson. Brother of Boris, Minister for Transport and Conservative MP for Orpington.
Rachel Sabiha Johnson. Sister of Boris and Jo, Journalist and TV presenter and former contestant on 'Celebrity Big Brother'. Recent convert to the Lib/Dems, rumours she will stand at the next election.
Stanley Patrick Johnson. Father of all three, former Conservative MEP for Hampshire, author and political writer/pundit and former contestant on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here'
Charlotte Maria Offlow Johnson Wahl. Wife of Stanley and mother of Boris, Jo and Rachel. Professional portrait artist and general arty farty posh bird type.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3804

Post by InfraRedBucket »

Small world - politics - Keep it in the family.

John Cryer : MP for nearby constituency to mine.
He is the son of Ann Cryer and Bob Cryer, both former Labour MPs.[7] His wife is Ellie Reeves, a Labour MP for Lewisham West and Penge and Labour NEC member from 2006-2016 and a trade union lawyer, who is the sister of Rachel Reeves, the former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cryer

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3805

Post by free thoughtpolice »

PZ defends campus SJW campus culture against conservative white penis haver Andrew Sullivan:
http://archive.is/KYsKf
As for “white supremacy,” “rape culture,” or “white privilege” — those are real things. I know that when you get snugged down tightly in your socio-economic slot, it gets harder to see them, because you are no longer exposed to as many contrasts, and you’re now rewarded for conformity rather than enquiry. It’s not that campuses are narrow and constraining and forcing people into radicalism, it’s that your life as a cossetted, privileged, boring white man means it’s easy for you to move right into a secure bubble and never think again. You’re the one being warped by your milieu, not the students. They tend to be liberated to think in new ways, a freedom they may never have to the same degree again. There’s no hothouse here. That’s reserved for defenders of the status quo in the non-campus universe, who will forever strain to suppress novelties that might emerge from a free-thinking environment.
:lol: cossetted, privileged, boring white man
It all makes me wish college campuses were seething hotbeds of chaos and rage, rising up to shatter these lies.
From the comments:
Helen Huntingdon
16 February 2018 at 5:12 pm
Where on earth did Sullivan get the notion that notorious rape factories are cuddly “safe spaces”? Is there lithium in his drinking water or something?
Oh, wait, he means they’re safe for people like him, with penises and all. The rest of us don’t count, apparently.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3806

Post by Kirbmarc »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
That’s reserved for defenders of the status quo in the non-campus universe, who will forever strain to suppress novelties that might emerge from a free-thinking environment.
A "free-thinking environment" where the wrong-thinkers are targeted with heckling and threats, where Halloween costumes are seen as triggering, where anyone who's not 100% on board with the SocJus program is smeared as "alt-right" or a "Nazi". Alright then.

Maybe it's a "free-thinking environment" like FTB is "free thought blogs", where "freedom" means "freedom from criticism".
Helen Huntingdon
16 February 2018 at 5:12 pm
Where on earth did Sullivan get the notion that notorious rape factories are cuddly “safe spaces”? Is there lithium in his drinking water or something?
Oh, wait, he means they’re safe for people like him, with penises and all. The rest of us don’t count, apparently.
[/quote]

Notorious rape factories :bjarte: I thought that they were "free thinking environments".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3807

Post by Kirbmarc »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
That’s reserved for defenders of the status quo in the non-campus universe, who will forever strain to suppress novelties that might emerge from a free-thinking environment.
A "free-thinking environment" where the wrong-thinkers are targeted with heckling and threats, where Halloween costumes are seen as triggering, where anyone who's not 100% on board with the SocJus program is smeared as "alt-right" or a "Nazi". Alright then.

Maybe it's a "free-thinking environment" like FTB is "free thought blogs", where "freedom" means "freedom from criticism".
Helen Huntingdon
16 February 2018 at 5:12 pm
Where on earth did Sullivan get the notion that notorious rape factories are cuddly “safe spaces”? Is there lithium in his drinking water or something?
Oh, wait, he means they’re safe for people like him, with penises and all. The rest of us don’t count, apparently.
[/quote]

Notorious rape factories :bjarte: I thought that they were "free thinking environments".

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3808

Post by Kirbmarc »

I give PeeZee only a few months before he goes full tankie like Dan Arel.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3809

Post by Brive1987 »

PZ's latest piece on Uni culture simply reveals he never transitioned from being an angry nerd student. It all makes a lot more sense now.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3810

Post by piginthecity »

The Slymepit - Warped by the mileau of reality.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3811

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote: PZ's latest piece on Uni culture simply reveals he never transitioned from being an angry nerd student. It all makes a lot more sense now.
All those years of atomic wedgies from the jocks and of looking for secluded spaces where he could store dead squids for "experiments" are hard to forget.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3812

Post by Guest_d2e60302 »

From VP ads at Facebook:











the perhaps flaw in his theory is that the Russkies and their ads relied on a media that is shallow and agenda driven. It was one chance in a million that our media acted in precisely the manner required to make this ad campaign succeed as well as it has, right?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3813

Post by Hunt »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: PZ's latest piece on Uni culture simply reveals he never transitioned from being an angry nerd student. It all makes a lot more sense now.
All those years of atomic wedgies from the jocks and of looking for secluded spaces where he could store dead squids for "experiments" are hard to forget.
I love how he first criticizes conservative critics of academia for not being on a campus for decades, then admits that he himself has never operated in "the real world" himself. So how does he judge the extend to which the academic gulag has spread into the world at large?

Then we're supposed to forget the Title IX kangaroo courts and "preponderance of evidence" criteria that Betsy deVos torpedoed, probably the one good thing that has come out of the Trump Admin. Then we're supposed to forget the Lindsay Shepherd recorded tribunal, which exposed campus authoritarianism and which we know is not an "isolated incident". And we're supposed to forget the coddling, the bogus rape statistics, the no-platforming, etc. Sullivan isn't the one with his head in the sand.

SM1957
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3814

Post by SM1957 »

So Saint Brendan Cox turns out to be a sex pest. Who will now deliver the Channel 4 Christmas message about how everybody is evil except for him?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3815

Post by Kirbmarc »

Guest_d2e60302 wrote: the perhaps flaw in his theory is that the Russkies and their ads relied on a media that is shallow and agenda driven. It was one chance in a million that our media acted in precisely the manner required to make this ad campaign succeed as well as it has, right?
So the Russians are acting like undercover trolls, sowing dissent thanks to morons on both sides?

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3816

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Lol. That tweet from George Galloway, using the Jo Cox murder* to have a go at people. Galloway is a twat who has enabled all sorts of horrible thugs and murderous Islamists in the past. Still does, in fact. Also, every couple of weeks, he sends a begging tweet to Jeremy Corbyn, asking to be let back in the party.

*I've noticed an increasing number of far lefties in the UK invoking the "Jo Cox was murdered" line to support their narrative that the UK is under siege from hordes of far right racists and white supremacists. Despite that murder, it is overblown, just as the far left in the US use the death of Heather Heyer to fend off criticism of their reactionary violence.

Naturally, these same people really hate it when the UK right use the death of Lee Rigby to point out the problem of Islamists.

Oh, and Galloway, just fuck off you antisemitic cunt.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3817

Post by CommanderTuvok »

SM1957 wrote: So Saint Brendan Cox turns out to be a sex pest. Who will now deliver the Channel 4 Christmas message about how everybody is evil except for him?
Strange thing is, his problematic behavior was exposed in 2015. But with the #MeToo and the UK charity scandals kicking off, past exposures get raked through the coals again.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3818

Post by Shatterface »

InfraRedBucket wrote: Small world - politics - Keep it in the family.

John Cryer : MP for nearby constituency to mine.
He is the son of Ann Cryer and Bob Cryer, both former Labour MPs.[7] His wife is Ellie Reeves, a Labour MP for Lewisham West and Penge and Labour NEC member from 2006-2016 and a trade union lawyer, who is the sister of Rachel Reeves, the former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cryer
At least when the trannies finally take over we won't have to worry about nepotism until they learn how to birth kids through their dickholes.

SM1957
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3819

Post by SM1957 »

CommanderTuvok wrote:
SM1957 wrote: So Saint Brendan Cox turns out to be a sex pest. Who will now deliver the Channel 4 Christmas message about how everybody is evil except for him?
Strange thing is, his problematic behavior was exposed in 2015. But with the #MeToo and the UK charity scandals kicking off, past exposures get raked through the coals again.
CommanderTuvok wrote:
SM1957 wrote: So Saint Brendan Cox turns out to be a sex pest. Who will now deliver the Channel 4 Christmas message about how everybody is evil except for him?
Strange thing is, his problematic behavior was exposed in 2015. But with the #MeToo and the UK charity scandals kicking off, past exposures get raked through the coals again.
I would have sympathy with Brendan Cox except for his habit of claiming that everybody who thinks there are problems with Islam is no different from Tommy Mair.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3820

Post by shoutinghorse »

SM1957 wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:
SM1957 wrote: So Saint Brendan Cox turns out to be a sex pest. Who will now deliver the Channel 4 Christmas message about how everybody is evil except for him?
Strange thing is, his problematic behavior was exposed in 2015. But with the #MeToo and the UK charity scandals kicking off, past exposures get raked through the coals again.
I would have sympathy with Brendan Cox except for his habit of claiming that everybody who thinks there are problems with Islam is no different from Tommy Mair.
Seems his late wife's own charity don't want him now


Guest_d2e60302

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3821

Post by Guest_d2e60302 »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:29 pm
Guest_d2e60302 wrote: the perhaps flaw in his theory is that the Russkies and their ads relied on a media that is shallow and agenda driven. It was one chance in a million that our media acted in precisely the manner required to make this ad campaign succeed as well as it has, right?
So the Russians are acting like undercover trolls, sowing dissent thanks to morons on both sides?
That seems to be the tl;dr

it would seem to fit the situation too, most of the ads placed after the election, Moscow presumably always eager to fuck around with the US, take us down a peg, sow internal dissent, reduce our cohesiveness and ability/willingness to act in foreign affairs (ukraine, syria), just as we "used" to be with them.

It seems a highly effective, low cost, low risk sort of troll.
It was one chance in a million that our media acted in precisely the manner required to make this ad campaign succeed as well as it has, right?
I was kidding above, it's pretty obvious that our media would play their role.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3822

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Really? wrote: Have you considered that you're the one who doesn't know how political parties work, particularly because you seem to think they are at all on the level?
Show where I even implied that political parties are "on the level".

You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3823

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Brive1987 wrote: PZ's latest piece on Uni culture simply reveals he never transitioned from being an angry nerd student. It all makes a lot more sense now.
A bitter, resentful, 60-year-old former booger eater is an ugly thing to behold.

Guest_d2e60302

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3824

Post by Guest_d2e60302 »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
None of this is lessening my desire to see everyone associated with Hillary and the DNC in 2016 pilloried and then flayed.

Even now I wonder which Wall Street Friendly candidate they have chosen to run in 2020 by establishing them as the champion of Social Justice.

Old_ones
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3825

Post by Old_ones »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Personally I can see the appeal of Peterson, even though I disagree with him on pretty much everything,
Pretty much everything? Examples, please.
The philosophical foundations of his arguments are the biggest reason why I disagree with him, especially his loopy concept of "truth" as "what is useful for survival in a Darwinian sense". I'll elaborate on this later since I don't have much time now, but Peterson deeply misunderstands Darwinian evolution to come up with his ideas.
I mostly agree with his criticisms of political correctness and postmodernism. I think he is a bit paranoid though - I don't really think this shit is going to turn the US, Canada, Western and Northern Europe into the Soviet Union under Stalin, and he genuinely seems to believe that we are headed there. The stuff of his that I have the most trouble with is his analysis of Christianity and meaning. It basically seems like he is selling a tradcon worldview with a bunch of Jungian deepities. He is intellegent enough that I still find this interesting, but I can't say I can really buy into his lines of thinking.

In any case I'm glad he is doing what he is doing, though, because I think he is the most effective critic of social justice ideology currently in the business. The SJWs can't beat him in an argument and he is good at turning their own tactics against them.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3826

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
Really? wrote: Have you considered that you're the one who doesn't know how political parties work, particularly because you seem to think they are at all on the level?
Show where I even implied that political parties are "on the level".

You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
When did I say that Hillary rigging the primary was the wurst skandal evah? Hillary gained concessions that ran counter to the DNC's charter and they concealed it as long as they could. They took money from their marks on the basis that the primary wasn't rigged and then defended themselves against a lawsuit by telling aggrieved members to fuck themselves, they don't have any obligation to follow their own rules. If you give money to the party, they will do with it what they goddamn please.

Seeing as how you agree the DNC is a festering cunthole of corruption, perhaps we can agree that only a retarded rube would enable them by giving them money, time or votes. Anyone who supports the DNC now is as retarded as a guy whose cheating spouse gives him AIDS, but he still gives her rides to the airport and helps her on moving day.

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3827

Post by Really? »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
Really? wrote: Have you considered that you're the one who doesn't know how political parties work, particularly because you seem to think they are at all on the level?
Show where I even implied that political parties are "on the level".

You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
When did I say that Hillary rigging the primary was the wurst skandal evah? Hillary gained concessions that ran counter to the DNC's charter and they concealed it as long as they could. They took money from their marks on the basis that the primary wasn't rigged and then defended themselves against a lawsuit by telling aggrieved members to fuck themselves, they don't have any obligation to follow their own rules. If you give money to the party, they will do with it what they goddamn please.

Seeing as how you agree the DNC is a festering cunthole of corruption, perhaps we can agree that only a retarded rube would enable them by giving them money, time or votes. Anyone who supports the DNC now is as retarded as a guy whose cheating spouse gives him AIDS, but he still gives her rides to the airport and helps her on moving day.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3828

Post by Really? »

Guest_d2e60302 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
None of this is lessening my desire to see everyone associated with Hillary and the DNC in 2016 pilloried and then flayed.

Even now I wonder which Wall Street Friendly candidate they have chosen to run in 2020 by establishing them as the champion of Social Justice.
Hillary's donors/the only Democrats whose votes count are in love with Kamala Harris. She's a woman, a minority and a neoliberal who will do whatever you tell her to if you give her enough money. The CA Democratic party even moved up their pretend primary vote to make sure she doesn't get screwed out of what is hers by those damn progressives, who have no place in the Democratic party.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3829

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Really? wrote:
Guest_d2e60302 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
None of this is lessening my desire to see everyone associated with Hillary and the DNC in 2016 pilloried and then flayed.

Even now I wonder which Wall Street Friendly candidate they have chosen to run in 2020 by establishing them as the champion of Social Justice.
Hillary's donors/the only Democrats whose votes count are in love with Kamala Harris. She's a woman, a minority and a neoliberal who will do whatever you tell her to if you give her enough money. The CA Democratic party even moved up their pretend primary vote to make sure she doesn't get screwed out of what is hers by those damn progressives, who have no place in the Democratic party.
How much for a BJ? Does she charge more than Kirsten Gillibrand? Did she do Trump while Melanoma was preggers? Inquiring minds want to know. So they can buy the story and own it so the whore can't snitch on the Donald. :drool:

Really?
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3830

Post by Really? »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Really? wrote:
Guest_d2e60302 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm
You're the one who thinks that Hilary's campaign getting certain concessions for bailing out a bankrupt DNC is somehow The Worst Political Scandal Evah™, an unprecedented power grab that so unfairly smacked a ruler across you Bernie Bros Bernie boners. It's par for the course, and pales in comparison to the election fraud committed by the obama campaign in the 2008 primaries, and the DNC's egregious violation of election law and its own rules that year.

In case you didn't know, I was once very active in the Democratic Party, in both volunteer and paid positions, as a convention delegate, etc., and saw the gamut of backroom finagling, deal making, and backstabbing. You strike me as a Candide when it come to politics.
None of this is lessening my desire to see everyone associated with Hillary and the DNC in 2016 pilloried and then flayed.

Even now I wonder which Wall Street Friendly candidate they have chosen to run in 2020 by establishing them as the champion of Social Justice.
Hillary's donors/the only Democrats whose votes count are in love with Kamala Harris. She's a woman, a minority and a neoliberal who will do whatever you tell her to if you give her enough money. The CA Democratic party even moved up their pretend primary vote to make sure she doesn't get screwed out of what is hers by those damn progressives, who have no place in the Democratic party.
How much for a BJ? Does she charge more than Kirsten Gillibrand? Did she do Trump while Melanoma was preggers? Inquiring minds want to know. So they can buy the story and own it so the whore can't snitch on the Donald. :drool:
If you bang Trump, he will pay you 135 grand. Unfortunately, it is much cheaper to buy politicians.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3831

Post by Pitchguest »

I keep seeing this narrative from Black Twitter™ about Black Panther making white people "uncomfortable" because a) apparently it's the first black superhero film, b) they're going to be forced to watch a film with black people in the cinema (as if this is something new and revolutionary) and c) that now everything's going to change, and I'm just quietly wondering to myself if these people were never actually born but grown in tubes and released only a few days ago. Who do they think bought the original comics with Black Panther back in 1966? Who do they think sustained and made the character popular? Who is it they think created him? And have these people ever heard of Blade? What they're saying is hair-tearingly stupid and makes me wish someone would just tell them, "But that's WRONG, you fucking idiot!"

Not to mention, even though they talk about how they love the character so much, the Black Panther COMIC BOOK by Ta-Nehisi Coates got cancelled due to poor sales. Even though it had Black Panther and a variety of other black characters in it, almost no one bought it, and I can GUARANTEE YOU that the people grandstanding about the supposed "importance" of the film did NOT buy it. Because they don't buy comic books. They don't really care about the character. Not really. It's just posturing. I just wish we could go back to a time when GTA: San Andreas came out and it was GTA's first black main protagonist, the supporting cast were predominantly black and no one gave a fuck.

( Hello, Tigzy :hankey:)

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3832

Post by piginthecity »

Kirbmarc wrote:
The philosophical foundations of his arguments are the biggest reason why I disagree with him, especially his loopy concept of "truth" as "what is useful for survival in a Darwinian sense". I'll elaborate on this later since I don't have much time now, but Peterson deeply misunderstands Darwinian evolution to come up with his ideas.
Kirb - I think you're reading something loopy and complicated into this which isn't there. All I took from that bit was the simple point that a brain that is capable of modelling reality accurately (i.e. truthfully) is an advantageous trait evolutionarily because it helps survival.

'Truth' includes such mundane facts as that some animals are dangerous and some are not.

No elaboration is required.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3833

Post by GenerallyFading »

Pitchguest wrote: "But that's WRONG, you fucking idiot!"
I read a review which consistnatly stated that there were no black superheroes. At all. Then it went on to mention Halle Berry as "Catwoman". I was baffled as to how they could forget that she played one of the most iconic black superheroes ever, Storm. I would like to forget "Catwoman" happened. It was a good show piece for Halle's......acting abilities. Why choose that film to point out, "OK, there was one but she was awful"? Why not mention the most amazing woman I grew up with? I thought her powers were excellent and she was a brilliant character. Chris Claremont gave her some beautiful dialogue (OK, look I was young and naive, it was beautiful to me), her speech to Rachel Summers when she was about to destroy the universe to kill The Beyonder was epic and her retort to the Beyonder was sooooo good. These people need to maybe actually read some comics.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3834

Post by Kirbmarc »

piginthecity wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:17 pm
Kirbmarc wrote:
The philosophical foundations of his arguments are the biggest reason why I disagree with him, especially his loopy concept of "truth" as "what is useful for survival in a Darwinian sense". I'll elaborate on this later since I don't have much time now, but Peterson deeply misunderstands Darwinian evolution to come up with his ideas.
Kirb - I think you're reading something loopy and complicated into this which isn't there. All I took from that bit was the simple point that a brain that is capable of modelling reality accurately (i.e. truthfully) is an advantageous trait evolutionarily because it helps survival.

'Truth' includes such mundane facts as that some animals are dangerous and some are not.

No elaboration is required.
Have you listened to Peterson's podcast with Sam Harris? JP goes on quite a long on how is concept of "truth" is grounded on "Darwinian survival". It's the main reason for his religious apology, or for his promotion of his own version of TradLife.

Basically Peterson's argument is that if a trait was potentially threatening to survival it'd have been selected away, so all traits that were passed on to this day are "true" traits. It looks reasonable on the surface, except that it's actually hiding a teleological (end-oriented) view of evolution, sneaking "god" through the back door to prove it's always been there.

Evolution is neither about a progression towards the best nor about selecting away traits that are abstractly "bad for survival". It's about different genes expressed in an environment that confer differential chances of passing on said genes. A change in the environment is likely to produce a dramatic shift in the usefulness of a specific phenotype. Traits that are "bad for survival" can suddenly become "good", and vice versa.

The classic example is sickle-cell disease and malaria. In most environments sickle-cell disease is highly "bad" for survival, but in an environment infested with malaria being a heterozygotic carrier of the gene for sicke-cell disease offers an evolutionary advantage, because it offers partial protection against malaria. It's not a coincidence that the prevalence is sickle-cell disease is far higher in places where malaria is endemic than in places where it isn't.

So what is "useful for survival" depends on the interaction between genes and the environment, and it's not an abstract "truth".

Indeed confirmation bias, or over-reaction to stimuli, or attribution of agency, are traits that have been selected as highly advantageous in evolutionary terms, despite causing a disconnection between a stimulus and a reaction. We humans see patterns when there is no pattern (for example seeing faces in combinations of lines, like this :bjarte: ) because it was evolutionary advantageous. We attribute meaning and agency to meaningless and non-actors because it was "good for survival" in the environment where and when those traits were selected.

Religion could very well be a combinations of traits that were advantageous in a specific environment (or in specific environments), like, for example, the promotion of high rates of child birth. But nothing says that "since they got us so far, then they must be true" or even "evolutionary useful". It's easy to imagine a scenario where religion leads to a catastrophically "bad" event for survival: for example a religiously inspired nuclear war between two religious sects armed with nuclear weapons (say the Islamic State vs. Hamas, if they both had nukes).

Less dramatically there's the religiously motivated refusal to use and promote condoms in Africa, an environment where unprotected sex is highly dysgenic due to AIDS.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3835

Post by Kirbmarc »

Sam Harris wrote this about his conversation with Jordan Peterson on his podcast.

While I don't agree with Harris on his rejection of the Humean dicothomy between "is" and "ought", these passages are interesting:
Rather than discuss religion and atheism, or the relationship between science and ethics, we spent two hours debating what it means to say that a proposition is (or seems to be) “true.” This is a not trivial problem in philosophy. But the place at which Peterson and I got stuck was a strange one. He seemed to be claiming that any belief system compatible with our survival must be true, and any that gets us killed must be false. As I tried to show, this view makes no sense, and I couldn’t quite convince myself that Peterson actually held it. The response on social media suggests that most listeners found our exchange as perplexing and frustrating as I did.
In the year 2017, the question “How should we act in the world?” simply isn’t reducible to Darwinism. In fact, most answers to this question arise in utter defiance of the evolutionary imperatives that produced us. Caring for disabled children would most likely have been maladaptive for our ancestors during any conditions of scarcity—while cannibalism recommended itself from time to time in every corner of the globe.
Indeed the problem with Peterson's "archetype theory" is that he seems to think that the archetypes, or Jungean Ur-stories, selected in a specific environment are good for survival in all environments.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3836

Post by Kirbmarc »

Old_ones wrote: I mostly agree with his criticisms of political correctness and postmodernism. I think he is a bit paranoid though - I don't really think this shit is going to turn the US, Canada, Western and Northern Europe into the Soviet Union under Stalin, and he genuinely seems to believe that we are headed there. The stuff of his that I have the most trouble with is his analysis of Christianity and meaning. It basically seems like he is selling a tradcon worldview with a bunch of Jungian deepities. He is intellegent enough that I still find this interesting, but I can't say I can really buy into his lines of thinking.

In any case I'm glad he is doing what he is doing, though, because I think he is the most effective critic of social justice ideology currently in the business. The SJWs can't beat him in an argument and he is good at turning their own tactics against them.
There are many critics of social justice ideology in the business (Pinker, Harris, Maher, etc.) Peterson's own version of the "truth" isn't much better than post-modernism. For example the bit that you describe as paranoia is actually grounded in his idea that the "fall of archetypes" is the cause for "nihilism totalitarianism", which is tied to his Jungian vision of archetypes as the reflection of the "authentic" approach to life, which he tries to ground in his own version of "Darwinian survival" (a good effort, but ultimately he misses the point of natural selection).

Basically, in simple words, Peterson is afraid that without religion we're going to worship an authoritarian state because that's the only thing that will give people "meaning", and so we need the tradcon worldview which developed in a very different historical and social environment to counter this. It's like saying that we need sickle-cell disease because there's the potential of more outbreaks of malaria due to climate change, ignoring that now we have other ways to counter malaria.

Basically he's offering a false dicothomy between postmodernism and the trad-con life, so he (like Milo Yannopoulos, or Dave Rubin) is shifting things to the right to fight the SJWs, while denying space for an anti-SJW left or even center-left or center.

I agree that Peterson is clever, articulated, clear and a VERY good debater. I much prefer him to Russell Brand, despite the fact that I agree more with Brand than with him. He's a much better speaker than Pinker, who comes off as shy and unsure of what he's doing, and he's much more charismatic than Sam Harris or Dawkins.

I think it's good that he's fighting the SocJus heads-on, and I certainly wouldn't want him to be silenced, but I'm worried that he might become the only one doing so, when we desperately need more people like Pinker or Harris to be in the spotlight. Hell, even Noam Chomsky is heavily criticizing the SocJus, although he only refers to post-modernism as "French intellectualism", which is, by now, an anachronism since most of the political po-mo is actually American.

My biggest worry is that the rise of Peterson, Shapiro, Rubin and others means that the only choice is going to be between the SocJus and the Trad-Right at best, or the alt-right at worst. The silencing and smearing of Pinker, Harris, Dawkins, Coyne, along with the ambiguities towards the SocJus of others (like Krauss) or the refusal to take a stand of yet others (Neil deGrasse Tyson, for example), along with the relentless false characterization of leftist critics of the SocJus as "alt-righters" or "white supremacists" (as it happened to Bernie Sanders of all people for daring to question ethnic quotas in politics) is eroding the left and even the center.

For now SocJus vs. alt-right is still a false dicothomy. I fear that in the real future it might become a reality, and we'll have to pick between the fans of ethno-states and of women barefoot and in the kitchen and the freebleeding open-borders manatee-kins who want to smash masculinity and whiteness.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3837

Post by Kirbmarc »

This is especially worrying since this is the time where young voices critical of islam, or at least of conservative, traditionalist islam, are popping out in the "muslim world". We'd need an "Enlightenment Now" in the Arab countries, in Turkey, in the Maghreb, in Indonesia or Bangladesh. Those who are fighting for it are getting considerable backlash from conservative/reactionary religious authorities.

Even in the west the liberal and ex-muslims, or the simply less conservative and reactionary muslims, would desperately NEED a coherent progressive support inspired by human rights, freedom of speech, freedom FROM religion, women's rights, children's rights, presumption of innocence, the proportionality of punishment, etc.etc.

Instead of one hand you get the alt-right which is focused on keeping the Others out and bringing back conservative or reactionary Christian or ethnocentric ideas, and on the other hand you get the SocJus, which is led by morons like Brand who think that Female Genital Mutilation is just "part of the culture" of islam, just like hijabs or (presumably) child marriage, or arranged marriage, or cousin marriage, or punishment for apostasy and blasphemy, because who are "we entitled white people" to judge the "poor, oppressed people of color" and their "vibrant culture".

We'd need a Newer Atheism aimed at islam as a religion, to dismantle muslim creationism or muslim conservatism or muslim reactionary ideas, to expose CAIR and CAGE and Al-Jazeera as factories of muslim reactionary memes, to allow young muslims to drink, or have sex before marriage, or switch religions, or not wear the hijab, safely and in peace, or to modernize their communities in countless ways. We need to expose the Salafi preachers who instruct people to hate the "corrupt and decadent west".

We need to promote HEAVY criticism of islam, to allow gay muslims to be out of the closet without fearing retaliation, to express loudly and clearly that at least in "western" liberal democracies FGM, child marriage, spousal abuse (which is a-OK according to the Qu'ran), rape, sexual assault, etc. aren't "just part of your vibrant culture" but are intolerable crimes. We need to criticize arranged marriage or cousin marriage as well, to poke holes in the ghettoization and in the narrative of muslim "purity" preserved through cultural isolation. Etc. Etc.

Instead we get either people wondering about whether Christianity can learn a few things from islam, or simply wanting all non-white people to go out, or (on the other side of the aisle) arguing that liberal demoracy is colonial white supremacist imperialism, that Hamas is a-OK, that the hijab is a fabulous sign of freedom, etc.

Peterson isn't as bad as others, but he's still arguing for a pre-modern set of values, which is more similar to the equally pre-modern muslims rather than to the values which we need to defend.

SM1957
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3838

Post by SM1957 »

As the Black Panther character was created by Stan Lee in 1966, what we clearly have is cultural appropriation by the black community of something created and enjoyed by white people.

Guest_d2e60302

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3839

Post by Guest_d2e60302 »

SM1957 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:06 am
As the Black Panther character was created by Stan Lee in 1966, what we clearly have is cultural appropriation by the black community of something created and enjoyed by white people.
Not so fast whitey, Stan Lee is Jewish, so hold off on your appropriate of our legend of the Gollum.

Kirbmarc
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Posts: 10577
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#3840

Post by Kirbmarc »

I think that in general there's way too much focus on "identity" or "meaning" rather than on concrete legal or ethical or social or economic issues.

I'm not saying that "identity" and "meaning" are pointless or unimportant, but they're not the end of everything, and they shouldn't be the only thing we talk about. Also "identity" and "meaning" have a high degree of subjectivity. I find no "identity" or "meaning" in gardening or knitting, but if someone does find those things in those activities, cool, more power to them, carry on gardening or knitting if that's what makes you happy and makes you feel useful, you don't need my activism to carry on doing what you do. Similarly if you find "meaning" meditating, or saying prayers, or reading holy books, fine, your life your choice, have fun and be happy.

The problems come from authoritarian public policies, intimidation, overwhelming social pressure, and using the state to impose your vision of "meaning". Forcing people to knit or do gardening or else they're put in prison, publicly shamed, ostracized, fired from their jobs, threatened, doxxed, smeared, injured, killed is the problem. Forcing people to do knitting or gardening in a SPECIFIC way or else all of the above happens, or to carry on knitting or gardening or else, is also the problem. Similarly forcing people to cut off their fingers so that they show the world how deeply seriuosly they're taking gardening, or to wear thimbles to show their commitment to knitting, or smearing non-gardeners or knitters as inherently immoral and depraved or inferior and unworthy of rights, is also the problem.

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