There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

Old subthreads
MarcusAu
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10501

Post by MarcusAu »

John D wrote: I'm going to see Peterson tonight at the Filmore in Detroit. Hopefully my wife feels well enough to let me stand in line to get my book signed. Her fibro is bad today.

Protestors???? Na.... I doubt it. Wayne State University is in Detroit and it is not known for liberal humanities students. But, we will see.
Be skeptical.

And enjoy yourself.

(Though I'm sure you don't need me to tell you to do either).

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10502

Post by Brive1987 »

mike150160 wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: Giving christianity (if you want to call what the prods do that) a special relationship with government - really fudges the line on church-state separation issues too.
Oh piffle. QEII is head of Church and she hasn’t burnt anyone at the stake for yonks.
However blokes in funny dresses automatically get to legislate just because they have the same invisible friend.
I can’t really figure out the Lords, “While it is unable to prevent Bills passing into law, except in certain limited circumstances, it can delay Bills and force the Commons to reconsider their decisions.” No wonder they are always asleep.

One thing’s for sure. They are not winning if the perceived threat is the risk of CofE sharia in the UK.

mike150160
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10503

Post by mike150160 »

Brive1987 wrote:
mike150160 wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: Giving christianity (if you want to call what the prods do that) a special relationship with government - really fudges the line on church-state separation issues too.
Oh piffle. QEII is head of Church and she hasn’t burnt anyone at the stake for yonks.
However blokes in funny dresses automatically get to legislate just because they have the same invisible friend.
I can’t really figure out the Lords, “While it is unable to prevent Bills passing into law, except in certain limited circumstances, it can delay Bills and force the Commons to reconsider their decisions.” No wonder they are always asleep.

One thing’s for sure. They are not winning if the perceived threat is the risk of CofE sharia in the UK.
I think that's a bit Motte and Bailey of you. The issue is not that the current CofE is equivalent to the purity court of the KSA. It's that even the limited establishment of the church in the UK leads to alteration in government policy and legislative planning to appease the men in dresses.

And I would suggest that it would be foolish to believe that, if presented with the opportunity, they wouldn't leverage any change in society to increase influence and power.

Jack Wooster
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10504

Post by Jack Wooster »

If it wasn't for the men in dresses we may have had euthanasia here years ago.

Keating
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10505

Post by Keating »

There have been a few articles suggesting sex redistribution in response to incels. Does it strike anyone else as amusing to see Marxist feminists argue against this with nothing but “taxation is theft” responses?

KiwiInOz
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10506

Post by KiwiInOz »

Lsuoma wrote:
Keating wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:30 pm
I don’t particularly care of the source countries of immigration to Australia, but I do care of the quantity. We’re attempting to double our population in 25 years. That’s insane. The trouble with too many people from the same culture is they can almost always form their own enclaves and almost never need to assimilate. That will cause massive societal conflicts down the line.
FTFY
That's true. The bloody Saffers have come to dominate in a suburb or two nearby us, and they have shifted the culture profoundly.

Keating
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10507

Post by Keating »

I thought you were in Brisbane, not Perth.

KiwiInOz
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10508

Post by KiwiInOz »

Keating wrote: I thought you were in Brisbane, not Perth.
They're like cockroaches those Jaapies. Bloody everywhere.

BoxNDox
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10509

Post by BoxNDox »

Bhurzum wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:28 am
Ape+lust wrote: It's Cinco de Mayo, time for Dave go 5'5" Hulk on behalf of Chicanos who couldn't give a shit (especially when they're selling those Coronas).
I scare myself just thinking about what I'd do to the little ratbag if he tried that with me. It wouldn't be pretty...

(I put the "fist" into "pacifist"...now there's a freebie pun-setup and a half!)
I have to admit when I read that I had a vision of him knocking a brewski out of some old scarred and tatted veterano's hands (who probably was just drinking, not celebrating) and getting the shit kicked out of him two seconds later.

Old_ones
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10510

Post by Old_ones »

Brive1987 wrote:
Old_ones wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
[The alt-right] always make inaccurate, simplistic, exaggerated, scaremongering arguments to push their ethno-nationalist crap.
[IM.G]http://i.imgur.com/mpIVGMU.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SRnPXEm.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG.]http://i.imgur.com/vGSyXOb.jpg[/IMG]
You publish all this bullshit about how many Asian immigrants you have, and how bad that is, but I've tracked down a figure of merit that means more to me. Here is the nature index for countries publishing scientific papers, and I've taken the liberty of highlighting all the Asian countries doing better than Australia.

Maybe instead of fretting over all the Asians coming in and thinking about "cultural house rules" (what the fuck does that even mean - you want Christianity as a state religion, and everyone has to eat Vegemite on Thursdays, or something?) you should welcome these people into your country in the hope that they'll teach you how to publish like a proper first world country.

On a somewhat unrelated note, it's really funny to me that you have some kind of Australian racial pride when Australia is descended from a penal colony for British degenerates. I guess if you have strong feelings about genetic or racial inferiority that would help explain why the UK is still kicking Austrialia's ass in scientific publishing. It still doesn't work for explaining why crappy multicultural, miscegenated USA is on top though.
Nice way to address my complaint that Kirb was rolling out his simplifications again.

You seem very angry. Try bourbon. (Just a hint).

I’m assuming you are not disputing the validity of my “bullshit” figures? No? Ok.

So the criteria for immigration should relate to host country scientific article count? I suspect this is a simplification of your views, but I can only work with you give me.

Should we test applicants to ensure they represent this cream? And send back those who struggle with redox reactions? Is this the basis for a cohesive, unified society?
You call me a rube, but you have this quaint idea of a "unified society" that seems to me like cultural homogeneity. I don't think any society that isn't a tiny tribe or city state has ever had that for a long period of time, and I don't think its a goal worth pursuing. The USA has certainly never been homogeneous and has always had large influxes immigrants that worried the white anglo protestants. Right now it's mostly the Mexicans and middle easterners who the nativists worry about, but it's been the Japanese, the Chinese, the Irish and so on at various times. We are more restrictive in our immigration than we have been in the past, but I reject the idea that our unassimilated immigrants are a ticking time bomb for our stability. If anything our stability as a society is undermined by our inability to move beyond bitter racial politics post-emancipation, and reconcile across racial lines (AFAIK this isn't applicable to Australian society but I don't know that much about your history).
Brive wrote: But wait. A look at nture’s index suggests the figures you produced are straight counts
http://feedback.natureindex.com/knowled ... nt-ac-mean

China has 5x our article count but 1.3 billion people compared to our 24 million. Now I’m not a scientist but .... :lol: :lol:
That list is ordered by weighted fractional count which splits the credit for each paper and down weights specialist Astronomy and Astrophysical journals (apparently correcting for marketshare). The outputs aren't normalized to population, its just a snapshot of overall output. It also doesn't take into account the fact that people go to places like the USA or UK specifically to attend graduate school and help pump these papers out. Which aligns with the point I'm trying to make (possibly badly) about scientific publishing not beign a "western culture" thing anymore unless you consider places like South Korea to be "western". There were nearly as many Chinese people as Americans in my graduate program, and we also had people from Iran, Kenya, Japan, Sudan, India, Pakistan, Israel and South Korea to name a few. One list isn't really going to be adequate to tell you which country (or culture) is best for research, but there are clearly strong contributions being made in many countries. I probably shouldn't have tried to make a dig out of the figure, but I was irritated by your post and wasn't as careful as I could have been.
Brive wrote:Have you actually thought this through?

I assume you also know that Australia only got convicts after the US dumping ground dried up. :lol:

You are a bit of a rube. Yes 168K convicts came to Australia, but the major demographic thrust occurred around the gold rushes when 2% of the British Isles freely emigrated and our population went from 437K in 1851 to 1.1 million ten years later.

You are also a rube if you thing the national identity - which propelled us into Nationhood in 1901 and persisted until the 1980s - rested on Vegemite.

I have listed the practical things I’d do if I had the wand I apparently need to wave to make you happy. Have you forgotten?

Finally I see you have picked up the cultural = racial magic blood well poisoning kit. I’ll let Kirb know where he dropped it.
You are a rube if you can't tell when someone is being facetious. The real point here is that I think your idea that you need legal protection for your culture is silly, and I think you are overly worried about people coming in with their own cultures. The comment about vegemite was obviously filippant - if you'd been an American I would have said something about baseball and apple pie.

Along these lines though, I do think that most "national culture" and "national identity" stuff is superfluous and unnecessary, and I do think you use it as a racial code word, e.g. when you are posting these "your argument is invalid" memes at Kirbmarc that look like they should be accompanied by the 14 words. That doesn't tell me that you think Kirb is surrounded by people who share his culture - it looks like a statement about race.

I don't think my country has ever had a single strong "national identity" beyond putting faith in certain democratic institutions and valuing personal freedom. The republicans want to sell you on the idea that we have a strong Christian identity, but a large number of Americans don't want any part of that, and for the most part the framers of our constitution didn't either. Of course the right wing is willing to spin the framers as though they were really a bunch of Baptist theological seminarians, but that narrative doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I don't think making meaning for people and being the arbiter of culture is in the government's job description, anyway. When Jordan Peterson talks about how a loss of religious meaning pushes people toward nihilism or totalitarianism, that is what I think he is talking about. I think governments that have this sort of grand cultural narratives behind them are likely to become totalitarian and turn their countries into hellholes. One of the Koreas has a strongly unified, government curated culture, and it isn't the one with a respectable paper count on the nature publishing index.

Lsuoma
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10511

Post by Lsuoma »

Old_ones wrote: You call me a rube, but you have this quaint idea of a "unified society" that seems to me like cultural homogeneity. I don't think any society that isn't a tiny tribe or city state has ever had that for a long period of time, and I don't think its a goal worth pursuing.
Ol' Kirbo would likely disagree...

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10512

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Old_ones wrote: There were nearly as many Chinese people Cohms as Americans Yangs in my graduate program,
FTFY

Old_ones
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10513

Post by Old_ones »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: You are also a rube if you thing the national identity - which propelled us into Nationhood in 1901 and persisted until the 1980s - rested on Vegemite.
We don't need no Vegemite when we have our very own far superior yeast extract spread. :snooty:
Vegemite is way better. The texture of marmite is terrible and it has an off putting sour flavor.

As a neutral

Old_ones
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10514

Post by Old_ones »

Brive1987 wrote: “White white white white white”. Fuck man you are fixated.

I would do all the things I’ve mentioned before.

I would
+ define Australia as a proud variant of European culture (Paul Keating could fuck off with his clocks to France)
+ would teach our history without the black armband
+ retain the constitutional monarchy
+ retain our flag
+ would have an official language (English) without providing demi offical alternatives
+ have a high level of mandatory English for immigrants
+ not invest in special programs and benefits for new arrivals that didn’t fit in
+ deglobalise our 2 main cities esp around property
+ seek to realign the economy away from ponzi growth but I’m not an economist in the hows
+ adopt Christianity where culture and tradition injected religion such as swearing ins etc
+ have zero tolerance for expressions of Islam in the public space including education
+ like to see policies that emphasised traditions (ie child focused) family
+ seek to reduce immigration to around 70,000 pa
+ prioritise immigrants coming from old stock cultural points of origin and not freak out these may be white people
+ financially compensate people who wanted to leave because their silos were no longer so tolerated
+ adopt the Swiss model of clear demarcation between (potentially temporary) residents and citizens

Just from the top of my head.
Australia really doesn't have a legal distinction between a citizen and a resident alien? I can agree, that would probably be helpful.

Some of these are OK, but I personally would fight tooth and nail to keep Christianity from being an official religion in my country. Maybe a christian state religion would mean something different in Australia than it would in the US. In the US we'd end up with Thomas Kinkade paintings in all our courtrooms, and the flat earthers would be allowed to teach our kids that the earth is 6000 years old, and Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church.

I also think "zero tolerance on Islam" sounds a bit intolerant. Zero tolerance, like it's effectively illegal to be a Muslim in Australia if you had your way? Do they have to piss on the Koran to prove that they've given it up?

Also, I have no idea what this means: "deglobalise our 2 main cities esp around property".

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10515

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Old_ones wrote: Snip-

Also, I have no idea what this means: "deglobalise our 2 main cities esp around property".
Stop letting Chinese etc buy up property in the cities as an investment and thereby driving up property prices.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10516

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

This is the beauty of the American constitution. Our legal immigrants have a clear set of laws that, on the whole, they actively embrace.

As long as our immigrants adhere to our laws, learn English and contribute, I don't give a flying fuck if Americans in 20 years are eating with chopsticks, worshipping Buddha or even eating Indian-style curries (Thai is empirically better.) I'd rather have a huge racially, culturally mixed population than a bunch of white people rejecting the enlightenment values of the Constitution.

Things change, sometimes even for the better. Only thing we can do is try to make the change positive rather than regressive.

That said, this is long overdue for it's own thread, as it has inclined both Sunder and Shatterface to depart.

Easy J
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10517

Post by Easy J »

From where I sit, the two sides of this argument are way closer than all the heat seem to warrant. Aside from the ever-blurred ethnicity/race distinction, I don't see a whole lot of distance in your positions. Maybe the role of government in the nation's culture (as opposed to the equally amorphous "values")but that aside, I don't see as big a divide here as the tone seems to suggest.

I'd like a spate of levity to break it up, but I'd be lying if I said I haven't been enjoying the discussion, sans barbs. Just my unsolicited two cents, & I'm pretty sure I left my coat in the car, so...

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10518

Post by SM1957 »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: This is the beauty of the American constitution. Our legal immigrants have a clear set of laws that, on the whole, they actively embrace.

As long as our immigrants adhere to our laws, learn English and contribute, I don't give a flying fuck if Americans in 20 years are eating with chopsticks, worshipping Buddha or even eating Indian-style curries (Thai is empirically better.) I'd rather have a huge racially, culturally mixed population than a bunch of white people rejecting the enlightenment values of the Constitution.
If you want people to convert to Enlightenment values, you have to have a bit of salesmanship.

The regressive Left feel nothing but disgust towards the past of America and Western Europe. This attitude hardly sells America and Western Europe to newcomers.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10519

Post by Kirbmarc »

Lsuoma wrote:
Old_ones wrote: You call me a rube, but you have this quaint idea of a "unified society" that seems to me like cultural homogeneity. I don't think any society that isn't a tiny tribe or city state has ever had that for a long period of time, and I don't think its a goal worth pursuing.
Ol' Kirbo would likely disagree...
I'm not pushing for "cultural homogeneity", I'm supporting a) the respect of the values of the host country and b) gradual assimilation beyond the ghettos.

This is what happened in the US for many cultures, for example the Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Jews. Today Italian Americans, Irish Americans, German Americans and American Jews are SO integrated within the fabric of American culture that an Italian American like Rudy Giuliani, an Irish American like Paul Ryan, a German American like Donald Trump and an American Jew like Stephen Miller are pushing a "nativist" agenda even though they all would have been called dangerous foreigners at some point in American history (ironic I know).

Of course I don't see their agenda as a good thing, but the fact that they're SO integrated with the US that they believe they're the "native culture" speaks volumes.

I think that with time, with the right selection and pressure the new immigrants can integrate within the host country, and (for example) expressions like "Secular Muslim" or "Atheist Muslim" will, if we manage things right, one day sound as common as "Secular Jew" or "Atheist Jew". It's happened before. The idea that people with the surnames Ryan or Trump or Giuliani would one day be thought of as a "nativist" and supporting "America First£ would have made the Know-Nothing Party supporters laugh.

I support immigration restrictions and other tools to make integration a) possible and b) easier. What I think is idiotic is the EXPLICIT focus on ethnicity as a founding value.

There's a huge difference between saying "we're letting in people who want to become one of us, and they have to prove it, by jumping through hoops if necessary" and "we're defined by an ethnicity/race, everyone else is just an intruder barely tolerated for the time being".

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10520

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

SM1957 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: This is the beauty of the American constitution. Our legal immigrants have a clear set of laws that, on the whole, they actively embrace.

As long as our immigrants adhere to our laws, learn English and contribute, I don't give a flying fuck if Americans in 20 years are eating with chopsticks, worshipping Buddha or even eating Indian-style curries (Thai is empirically better.) I'd rather have a huge racially, culturally mixed population than a bunch of white people rejecting the enlightenment values of the Constitution.
If you want people to convert to Enlightenment values, you have to have a bit of salesmanship.

The regressive Left feel nothing but disgust towards the past of America and Western Europe. This attitude hardly sells America and Western Europe to newcomers.
It sure doesn't. The regressive left is the biggest hurtle to enlightment values in the west. The fifth column of freedom and democracy, the cancer feeding off the fruits of the enlightenment. Also, their hygiene is suspect and they have bad taste in music.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10521

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Maybe Brive is right...return Australia to a simpler time...
72a3e0bc04cf8ed01c52016103a3c23c.jpg
(21.03 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
What, too far?

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10522

Post by Brive1987 »

Lsuoma wrote:
Old_ones wrote: You call me a rube, but you have this quaint idea of a "unified society" that seems to me like cultural homogeneity. I don't think any society that isn't a tiny tribe or city state has ever had that for a long period of time, and I don't think its a goal worth pursuing.
Ol' Kirbo would likely disagree...
There are competing cultural paradigms and then there is healthy diversity.

The former was on display in my video or can be referenced here.



The latter is what happens when a Toorak matron meets Gazza from the Kimberley. Or when I venture over the Gladesville Bridge. Weird, incredible stuff.

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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10523

Post by Kirbmarc »

SM1957 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: This is the beauty of the American constitution. Our legal immigrants have a clear set of laws that, on the whole, they actively embrace.

As long as our immigrants adhere to our laws, learn English and contribute, I don't give a flying fuck if Americans in 20 years are eating with chopsticks, worshipping Buddha or even eating Indian-style curries (Thai is empirically better.) I'd rather have a huge racially, culturally mixed population than a bunch of white people rejecting the enlightenment values of the Constitution.
If you want people to convert to Enlightenment values, you have to have a bit of salesmanship.

The regressive Left feel nothing but disgust towards the past of America and Western Europe. This attitude hardly sells America and Western Europe to newcomers.
This is true, and that's one of the reasons why I'm so against the Regressive Left. Immigrants should be encouraged to take part in the "western" culture, to adopt Enlightenment values, to acknowledge the good things about the past of the host country. "Westerners" should be rightfully proud of having values that are better than the values of more "traditional" countries. There should be a common social message that you're welcome, but you have to learn how to fit in and mix (maybe we can call it "civic nationalism"?)

Instead I see a lot of collective guilt about the past, a lot of pandering to segregationist agendas with the idiotic "cultural appropriation" scandals, a lot of sobbing and whining that the "west" is So Evil for "imposing its values" on immigrants, a lot of cultural relativism and defense of barbaric aspects of certain cultures because "it's their culture and who are we to judge".

The "west" HAS grown better from its past. It's far from perfect, and it needs many reforms (to bring back some Keynesian economics and curb the power of lobbies and private investment firms, for example), but the liberal democratic model IS the best societal model in the world. Human development indexes, childhood mortality indexes, literacy indexes, health and lifespan indexes, they all show that the "west" (Europe and especially Western Europe, the US, Canada, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand) is the best place to live. Indeed this is why immigrants want to come to the "west", after all.

As with everything in life there has to be a compromise. Do you come from a "non-western" country and want to enjoy the perks of living in the "west"? Good, but then you need to respect its rules, acknowledge its values, and mix within its culture (not by shedding yours, but by accepting cross-pollination and integration instead of holing up in your ghettos). It's a fair trade: better economic prospects and better institutions than in the country you left in exchange for you adopting the mindset that made those things possible.

At the same time the host country should accept that if they want to sell their culture and their laws they must actively fight against double standards, open discrimination and marginalization, and calls for violence. Again, a fair trade.

The problems come when for some reasons (too many arrivals in too little time, failures of integration) immigrants end up forming closed off ghettos where they live in a "state within a state", with a parallel, isolated culture, their own institutions, their own messages, while still enjoying the perks of living with a pluralistic liberal democracy. This isn't something that should be encouraged.

The way I see it the biggest problem today in Europe is with islam. There are forces which seeks to keep muslims from integrating: most of these forces are financed by Gulf theocracies, and by people who studied in those Gulf theocracies. The SocJus indirectly supports these forces by claiming that they're "resisting imperialism" (LOL, they're a tool of Gulf theocracy imperialism), by saying that islam is fine the way it is and that it doesn't need to change and adapt because it's already "feminist" and "progressive" (LOL again), and by seeding mistrust for liberal democratic institutions by claiming that they're actually a tool of "patriarchy" and "white supremacy".

But the alt-right is ALSO undermining assimilation and integration by putting the "ethnic interests" up-front, as an explicit requirement for liberal democracies to function, by propping up the idea that assimilation isn't possible, by insisting on looking at skin color, by wanting an EXPLICIT codification of "culture" instead of an IMPLICIT process of integration through requirements.

The SocJus and the alt-right are also feeding each other. Thanks to the existence of the alt-right the SocJus can easily claim that liberal democracy, its values and the history of "western" countries are "white supremacy". Thanks to the existence of the SocJus and its cultural relativistic ways the alt-right can easily build up a narrative about the impossibility of integration, about the "fall of the west",etc.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10524

Post by Brive1987 »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Maybe Brive is right...return Australia to a simpler time...

72a3e0bc04cf8ed01c52016103a3c23c.jpg

What, too far?
Don’t be a rube. The Noble Savage is a racist trope.

And inaccurate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norther ... y_Response

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10525

Post by Brive1987 »

... acknowledge its values, and mix within its culture (not by shedding yours, but by accepting cross-pollination and integration instead of holing up in your ghettos
That requires unpacking. How much non-shedding integration qualifies? What to do when cross-pollination is actually a binary decision? How do you define the dominant culture they are (semi?) integrating with?

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10526

Post by Brive1987 »

There's a huge difference between saying "we're letting in people who want to become one of us, and they have to prove it, by jumping through hoops if necessary" and "we're defined by an ethnicity/race, everyone else is just an intruder barely tolerated for the time being".
:lol: :lol:

It’s ok to structure your hoops so that 80% of those who successfully jump come from a single continent. :lol:

Your argument is invalid.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10527

Post by Brive1987 »

Easy J wrote:
I'd like a spate of levity to break it up, but I'd be lying if I said I haven't been enjoying the discussion, sans barbs. Just my unsolicited two cents, & I'm pretty sure I left my coat in the car, so...
I tried upskirt ABBA.

Didn’t work.

Maybe Nordic jackboots were a bad idea.

Keating
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10528

Post by Keating »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: The regressive left is the biggest hurtle to enlightment values in the west.
I’m starting to worry they aren’t. There may be something inherently wrong with the enlightenment at its core. Take this article, for instance:

http://quillette.com/2018/05/05/liberal ... alitarian/

Rawls may present an equally disastrous case, and suggests Harrison Bergeron may be the only moral choice.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10529

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote:
... acknowledge its values, and mix within its culture (not by shedding yours, but by accepting cross-pollination and integration instead of holing up in your ghettos
That requires unpacking. How much non-shedding integration qualifies? What to do when cross-pollination is actually a binary decision? How do you define the dominant culture they are (semi?) integrating with?
There's a hierarchy of cultural integration requirements (which I'm roughly basing off how the Swiss system for integration works):

a) NECESSARY: respect for laws, taking part in public education, respect for authorities, respect for institutions, respect for pluralism (so no preaching of hatred toward other groups and no support for plans to "take over"), learning the local language to an acceptable degree (being able to communicate with locals)

b) HEAVILY ENCOURAGED: making lots of local friends, helping out people in the local community you live in, learning about local costumes

c) GOOD FOR YOUR ODDS OF STAYING: learning about the past of the host country, taking part in local associations for the improvement of the community, taking part in local cultural expressions (festivals, etc.)

"Non-shedding" means that you're not required to convert from your religion (no "Qu'ran piss tests"), or to stop speaking your mother tongue with other people who can speak it, or cooking your own cuisine.

Brive1987
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10530

Post by Brive1987 »

Old_ones wrote:
Australia really doesn't have a legal distinction between a citizen and a resident alien? I can agree, that would probably be helpful.

Some of these are OK, but I personally would fight tooth and nail to keep Christianity from being an official religion in my country. Maybe a christian state religion would mean something different in Australia than it would in the US. In the US we'd end up with Thomas Kinkade paintings in all our courtrooms, and the flat earthers would be allowed to teach our kids that the earth is 6000 years old, and Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to church.

I also think "zero tolerance on Islam" sounds a bit intolerant. Zero tolerance, like it's effectively illegal to be a Muslim in Australia if you had your way? Do they have to piss on the Koran to prove that they've given it up?

Also, I have no idea what this means: "deglobalise our 2 main cities esp around property".
Australia had/has a generally laid back attitude to religion with healthy skepticism. Cultural Christianity was tolerated. That means a Christian prayer when the Westminster system parliament opens, swarming in the bible, chritamas, Easter, baptisms, weddings and funerals. Some CofE schools which have an ivy chapel for once a week 3 hymns, 2 psalms, reading, prayer and a sermon. And catholic layers for the micks and Italians.

Islam in the public space was my concern. I don’t want your violent offence in the face of western free speech. I don’t want virtue signalling halal. I don’t want western women’s described as raw meat for dogs. I don’t want your madrasa schools on the public purse. Or at all.

Re citizens. You can apply after 4 years if you:

are a permanent resident at time of application and time of decision
meet the residence requirements
are of good character
have a basic knowledge of the English language
intend to reside or maintain a close and continuing association with Australia
have an adequate knowledge of the responsibilities and privileges of Australian citizenship.


Basic. Adequate. Nuff said.

The four years is fluid:
You must meet all of the following:
have lived in Australia on a valid Australian visa for four years immediately before applying
must have been a permanent resident for the 12 months immediately before making an application and not have been absent from Australia for more than one year in total, during the four year period, including no more than 90 days in the 12 months before applying.

Ape+lust
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10531

Post by Ape+lust »


Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10532

Post by Kirbmarc »

Keating wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: The regressive left is the biggest hurtle to enlightment values in the west.
I’m starting to worry they aren’t. There may be something inherently wrong with the enlightenment at its core. Take this article, for instance:

http://quillette.com/2018/05/05/liberal ... alitarian/

Rawls may present an equally disastrous case, and suggests Harrison Bergeron may be the only moral choice.
The problem is that there never is, and never will be, a society which is completely meritocratic. The wealth and social connections of your family will always matter. Another problem is the confusion between about equality of opportunity, equality of outcome, and the pragmatic priniciple not leaving people in the position where they can't support themselves.

Equality of outcome is impossible and fundamentally unjust and counterproductive anyway (you can't pay someone who sits on his ass reviewing video games as much a neurosurgeon and expect society to be just and to function). Equality of opportunity is also a concept which in abstract may seem fine, but in practice is much thorny than one assumes: what about "unearned" privileges like beauty, smarts, social skills, personality, the wealth of your family, the social connections of your family? Some of these inequalities can be addressed more rationally (taxes on inheritance, funds for talented but poor people, requiring people to hire based on a double-blind process and not through family connections, at least for high-income and high-responsibility tasks) but some can't be fixed without hugely illiberal changes (beautiful people will always have it easier on the sexual job market, and you can't do anything about them except making them less beautiful, which is highly illiberal to say the least).

The concept of "equality" is fraught with problems and caveats. Perhaps it's better to leave it to philosophical speculations and instead embrace a more pragmatic approach, based on the idea that all people should be able not to starve, to have access to electricity, clean water, decent food, to be receive decent education, decent healthcare, and basic living standards, and accept that not everyone will have equal outcomes, or even equal opportunities to have equal outcomes.

Many people seem to want an "even playing field" but that's likely just a fantasy, since life is "uneven" in many ways. What seems more possible is a set of standards which is available to all, financed by taking something out of those who are most successful, to guarantee a chance to a decent life even to those who can't make it on their own. It's better to focus on concrete, specific problems ("City X has a clean water problem" "Demography Y has low access to decent education" "access to good healthcare in country Z is awful when compared to how much the country spends on it") than to focus on STRICTLY equal outcomes or opportunities, especially the "equality of representation within the elites" that the SocJus likes ("more black women CEOs!" "more actors of color!")

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10533

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Maybe Brive is right...return Australia to a simpler time...

72a3e0bc04cf8ed01c52016103a3c23c.jpg

What, too far?
Don’t be a rube. The Noble Savage is a racist trope.

And inaccurate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norther ... y_Response
Oh, I don't care how noble they are. Not a bit. But they are, or were, inarguably simpler. Yep. And may indeed have as much or more grievance than you.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10534

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Keating wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: The regressive left is the biggest hurtle to enlightment values in the west.
I’m starting to worry they aren’t. There may be something inherently wrong with the enlightenment at its core. Take this article, for instance:

http://quillette.com/2018/05/05/liberal ... alitarian/

Rawls may present an equally disastrous case, and suggests Harrison Bergeron may be the only moral choice.
Nope. Just acknowledge funfamentally that life isn't fair. Nobody has yet presented a better alternative than enlightment values, as amorphous as they are.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10535

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Cruel, but fair. And funny.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10536

Post by Kirbmarc »

Even Marx didn't support equality of outcome. His slogan was "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". That's not a support for equal outcome or even equal opportunity. His vision was that of a post-scarcity society, where there was no need for unpleasant labor, but people worked anyway for the good of society and according to their skills, while people received things only according to what they needed.

Marx' post-scarcity utopia is highly unrealistic, but still, even from a "classical leftist" point of view, the strict focus on perfect equality of outcome or perfect equality of opportunity is unwarranted. The SocJus focus on how unfair it is that not everyone is exactly equal in terms of skills and features is a relatively newer feature, one which is preoccupied with a scarcity society, where getting a good, rewarding life is a matter of luck. The Rawlsian focus is more in terms of not leaving people to fall behind and have a terrible life through no fault of their own in a scarcity-based society.

The SocJus or the Rawlsian position about scarcity is more realistic than the Marxist utopia. However, while the Rawslian position is based on some abstractions, like the "veil of ignorance" the conclusion (it's not fair to "leave behind" people who are naturally disadvantaged in a way that they can't support themselves) is sound, unlike the SocJus, which is STRICTLY focused on "perfect equality of outcome" (that's why we get all the stuff about the "gender gap in income") and, in practice, all about "equal representation among the social and economic elites, which will then trickle down along social group lines".

Rawls doesn't advocate for the Harrison Bergeron society, to make everyone equal by deliberately "leveling the playing field" and reducing natural advantages. He advocates for not letting people starve or suffer because they can't make it. There's a shade of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" here, although it's filtered through the realistic assumption that not everyone is equal in their needs or abilities, and that a post-scarcity society is a myth.

shoutinghorse
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Posts: 2649
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10537

Post by shoutinghorse »

Churchill with his chiefs of staff at 10 Downing st, on the day Germany surrendered (May 7th 1945).

https://i.imgur.com/hpbxkQs.png

Hunt
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Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10538

Post by Hunt »

Another good talk by Heather MacDonald.

I'm not normally susceptible to tradlife arguments, but her parting points about traditional sexual norms never tolerating exhibitionist masturbation had me going. (No, not that way.) To a certain extent I think she's guilty of the same thing she laments: the fallacy of dichotomy. It shouldn't be a tradeoff between traditional norms and masturbating in a plant. Anyway, I blame the 70s for giving us outliers like Weinstein and Louis CK.

Most of her talk is on the Attack on Meritocracy:


Ape+lust
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10539

Post by Ape+lust »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Cruel, but fair. And funny.
:D

I've been laughing at Dan lately because an instance of "principled" grandstanding led him to torpedo his published catalog. He's an author with no books to sell or discuss on his site.

The foreword to his first book was written by Peter Boghossian. Of course, Dan eventually (inevitably) came to despise Boghossian, which allowed him the pleasure of an ostentatious public disavowal. He removed the book from his site in early March.

A month later, he was withdrawing his only other book.

The foreword to that one was written by Dave Silverman :lol: :lol:

Bhurzum
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10540

Post by Bhurzum »

What is it about elevators and sour-faced cunts?

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Ma ... snt/243350

Hunt
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Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10541

Post by Hunt »

Bhurzum wrote: What is it about elevators and sour-faced cunts?

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Ma ... snt/243350
These days it's the perfect environment to make a faux pas. You're in a confined space, with people you wouldn't normally be in close proximity to. There's the impulse to say something amusing, which will be received by people predisposed to not find anything funny. Quite the opposite. Basically, it's setup for social calamity

Bhurzum
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Posts: 5059
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10542

Post by Bhurzum »

It's 12:24 on a Monday, I'm mildly sunburnt, half-pissed and on the brink of falling asleep. Played 18 holes of golf with a mate and his frau (they hammered me mercilessly...pun setup intentional), thoroughly enjoyed the weather/fresh air but agree that it's a waste of a good walk.

Still, the shenanigans in the clubhouse made it all worthwhile: necked whisky, puffed cigars and put the world to rights.

Life is good.


Karmakin
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Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:49 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10543

Post by Karmakin »

Kirbmarc wrote: Even Marx didn't support equality of outcome. His slogan was "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". That's not a support for equal outcome or even equal opportunity. His vision was that of a post-scarcity society, where there was no need for unpleasant labor, but people worked anyway for the good of society and according to their skills, while people received things only according to what they needed.

Marx' post-scarcity utopia is highly unrealistic, but still, even from a "classical leftist" point of view, the strict focus on perfect equality of outcome or perfect equality of opportunity is unwarranted. The SocJus focus on how unfair it is that not everyone is exactly equal in terms of skills and features is a relatively newer feature, one which is preoccupied with a scarcity society, where getting a good, rewarding life is a matter of luck. The Rawlsian focus is more in terms of not leaving people to fall behind and have a terrible life through no fault of their own in a scarcity-based society.

The SocJus or the Rawlsian position about scarcity is more realistic than the Marxist utopia. However, while the Rawslian position is based on some abstractions, like the "veil of ignorance" the conclusion (it's not fair to "leave behind" people who are naturally disadvantaged in a way that they can't support themselves) is sound, unlike the SocJus, which is STRICTLY focused on "perfect equality of outcome" (that's why we get all the stuff about the "gender gap in income") and, in practice, all about "equal representation among the social and economic elites, which will then trickle down along social group lines".

Rawls doesn't advocate for the Harrison Bergeron society, to make everyone equal by deliberately "leveling the playing field" and reducing natural advantages. He advocates for not letting people starve or suffer because they can't make it. There's a shade of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" here, although it's filtered through the realistic assumption that not everyone is equal in their needs or abilities, and that a post-scarcity society is a myth.
I think the actual support for equality of outcome is very small. Certainly, it sounds good in 140 characters, but quite frankly, I don't think it's something people really believe or want. It just sounds ultra-moral or ethical. In reality, what the SocJus types are looking for is reducing the forms of competition into a singular social/political competition, ensuring they dominate that and gain the spoils accordingly.

Karmakin
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Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:49 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10544

Post by Karmakin »

Kirbmarc wrote: Even Marx didn't support equality of outcome. His slogan was "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". That's not a support for equal outcome or even equal opportunity. His vision was that of a post-scarcity society, where there was no need for unpleasant labor, but people worked anyway for the good of society and according to their skills, while people received things only according to what they needed.

Marx' post-scarcity utopia is highly unrealistic, but still, even from a "classical leftist" point of view, the strict focus on perfect equality of outcome or perfect equality of opportunity is unwarranted. The SocJus focus on how unfair it is that not everyone is exactly equal in terms of skills and features is a relatively newer feature, one which is preoccupied with a scarcity society, where getting a good, rewarding life is a matter of luck. The Rawlsian focus is more in terms of not leaving people to fall behind and have a terrible life through no fault of their own in a scarcity-based society.

The SocJus or the Rawlsian position about scarcity is more realistic than the Marxist utopia. However, while the Rawslian position is based on some abstractions, like the "veil of ignorance" the conclusion (it's not fair to "leave behind" people who are naturally disadvantaged in a way that they can't support themselves) is sound, unlike the SocJus, which is STRICTLY focused on "perfect equality of outcome" (that's why we get all the stuff about the "gender gap in income") and, in practice, all about "equal representation among the social and economic elites, which will then trickle down along social group lines".

Rawls doesn't advocate for the Harrison Bergeron society, to make everyone equal by deliberately "leveling the playing field" and reducing natural advantages. He advocates for not letting people starve or suffer because they can't make it. There's a shade of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" here, although it's filtered through the realistic assumption that not everyone is equal in their needs or abilities, and that a post-scarcity society is a myth.
I think the actual support for equality of outcome is very small. Certainly, it sounds good in 140 characters, but quite frankly, I don't think it's something people really believe or want. It just sounds ultra-moral or ethical. In reality, what the SocJus types are looking for is reducing the forms of competition into a singular social/political competition, ensuring they dominate that and gain the spoils accordingly.

feathers
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Posts: 6113
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10545

Post by feathers »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:24 am
Maybe Brive is right...return Australia to a simpler time...

72a3e0bc04cf8ed01c52016103a3c23c.jpg

What, too far?
Too small.
pkoker.jpg
(161.51 KiB) Downloaded 250 times

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10546

Post by shoutinghorse »

Bhurzum wrote: What is it about elevators and sour-faced cunts?

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Ma ... snt/243350
Talking of elevators and sour faced cunts .. The original E-Girl is having a 'high' old time in Vegas.

I dunno, all work work work with that girl.
https://i.imgur.com/WTubCPJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/DkEDv3G.png
https://i.imgur.com/iX29Zk8.png

Hunt
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Posts: 3282
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10547

Post by Hunt »

Just heard a good friend of mine's house was destroyed here in Hawaii by the lava flow. A week ago everything was fine, chirping birds and sunny trade winds. Then a crack opens up and lava destroys your house.

Be thankful for what you have, folks.

Kirbmarc
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Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10548

Post by Kirbmarc »

Karmakin wrote: I think the actual support for equality of outcome is very small. Certainly, it sounds good in 140 characters, but quite frankly, I don't think it's something people really believe or want. It just sounds ultra-moral or ethical. In reality, what the SocJus types are looking for is reducing the forms of competition into a singular social/political competition, ensuring they dominate that and gain the spoils accordingly.
Of course. Equality of outcome is impossible, everyone who truly gives it a thought will understand it sooner or later. It's only used to say "people like me are victims, and we deserve compensation for that".

John D
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Posts: 5966
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Location: Detroit, MI. USA

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10549

Post by John D »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 11:10 am
John D wrote: Then again....1174796_3297303969273_1656431471_n.jpg
How is your daughter, by the way?
I think my daughter is okay. Thanks for asking. We talk on the phone regularly and she is pretty positive on the phone. My worry is that she was pretty upbeat on the phone right before her breakdown... so... I doubt I have the whole story. I plan to just stay open with her so she knows I am here if she needs me.

My son-in-law is going on vacation.... but not with my daughter. He is taking a vacation with their fuck buddy instead. My daughter is going to stay at home and work... but... she is going to invite her boyfriend (a 40 year old ex-marine) to have a sleep over at the same time. WTF! I guess they will both have a holiday. My daughter has told me that she has a much stronger sex drive than my son-in-law... so... yeah... my daughter has a boyfriend. She also regularly dates other guys. How does this work as a lifestyle? Wow.

Peterson was pretty good last night. He talked about mass shooters and his theory of their motivation. He didn't sign books. The venue was packed and their was only one heckler who yelled "Your book sucks!" Haha. Most of the time the theater was so quiet you could hear a pin drop.

They were selling signed books for $25, but they were just books with a sticker on the inside that Peterson had signed. He must have sat for a day and signed stickers... haha. But, $25 is a good price for the hardcover version of the book. It was really a just nice bonus to get one signed. My buddy bought one.

My buddy's wife... who is really also someone I consider a good friend... works in a library and she reported that they bought 13 copies of 12 Rules. She said this was a very large number for their library.

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10550

Post by shoutinghorse »

Oh yeah, this happened yesterday, 10,000 plus marched from speakers corner in Hyde Park to Downing St. and gathered at number 10 for speeches in support of 'Day for Freedom' jointly organised by Tommy Robinson, FLA and Veterans against extremism.
Not that you'd know if you relied on the BBC or SKY for the news and Her Majesty's gutter press of course quickly labelled it a "Far Right" rally.



P.S. Antifa showed up in dribs and drabs and were quickly shamed and mocked with chants of "you're not English anymore" and "wankers wankers wankers"

Matt Cavanaugh
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Contact:

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10551

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Kirbmarc wrote: Even Marx didn't support equality of outcome. ... His vision was that of a post-scarcity society, where there was no need for unpleasant labor, but people worked anyway for the good of society and according to their skills, while people received things only according to what they needed.
So, just like Star Trek.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Posts: 15449
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10552

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Bhurzum wrote: I'm mildly sunburnt, half-pissed
Doesn't the former happened to you pasty bastards whenever the sun peeks out from behind the clouds for a few minutes, and the latter all the time anyway?

Ape+lust
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10553

Post by Ape+lust »

shoutinghorse wrote:
Bhurzum wrote: What is it about elevators and sour-faced cunts?

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Ma ... snt/243350
Talking of elevators and sour faced cunts .. The original E-Girl is having a 'high' old time in Vegas.

I dunno, all work work work with that girl.
https://i.imgur.com/WTubCPJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/DkEDv3G.png
https://i.imgur.com/iX29Zk8.png
She's looking more and more like something from a Weimar cabaret.

Someone else has that feral albino thing going, too. If Peez ever notices, her sugar daddy stipend could be in peril. That'd be great :D


ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10554

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Meyers begins his sabbatical.

I cannot fucking wait to see what pile of dogshit he comes up with this time.

Perhaps the FT should put in all our sigs one of those countdown timers so popular on chatboards in 1992.

https://i.imgur.com/ZBoofGS.png

Matt Cavanaugh
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Posts: 15449
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10555

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Bhurzum wrote: What is it about elevators and sour-faced cunts?

https://www.chronicle.com/article/He-Ma ... snt/243350
LOL. The feminazi who turned in a dude to authorities for making a joke, and who rebuffed his personal apology, has a Ph.D. in Conflict Analysis and Resolution.

Kirbmarc
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10556

Post by Kirbmarc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Even Marx didn't support equality of outcome. ... His vision was that of a post-scarcity society, where there was no need for unpleasant labor, but people worked anyway for the good of society and according to their skills, while people received things only according to what they needed.
So, just like Star Trek.
Indeed. Just as unrealistic, I'd say. A post-scarcity society is a dream.

Meanwhile in the real world resource allocation is surely a problem, but scarcity is also present, and the best we can do is try to raise the standards of living and make the system more efficient at keeping powerful entities under reciprocal control and avoiding extreme concentration of power.

Bhurzum
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10557

Post by Bhurzum »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Doesn't the former happened to you pasty bastards whenever the sun peeks out from behind the clouds for a few minutes, and the latter all the time anyway?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/8be3114 ... id=7227906

In fact, I'm so offended, as soon as I sober up and square away my sunburn, I'm going to report you to the internet police!

:twisted:

DrokkIt
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Posts: 1327
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10558

Post by DrokkIt »

shoutinghorse wrote: Oh yeah, this happened yesterday, 10,000 plus marched from speakers corner in Hyde Park to Downing St. and gathered at number 10 for speeches in support of 'Day for Freedom' jointly organised by Tommy Robinson, FLA and Veterans against extremism.
Not that you'd know if you relied on the BBC or SKY for the news and Her Majesty's gutter press of course quickly labelled it a "Far Right" rally.



P.S. Antifa showed up in dribs and drabs and were quickly shamed and mocked with chants of "you're not English anymore" and "wankers wankers wankers"

So overall I'm hoping that this event was for the good.
However it's not the first time I've pointed it out, but, there is an optics problem with stuff like "football lads alliance". This movement could have a much bigger base if it didn't trigger centre-left types with this stuff.

And let's not pretend this is anything new- try organising an anti-war march under a 'social democrat' banner and see all the centre-left react to SOCIALISM REEEEE MARXISM etc.

Typical political tribes trying to "win people over" at the cost of getting something done, I fear.

shoutinghorse
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10559

Post by shoutinghorse »

DrokkIt wrote: there is an optics problem with stuff like "football lads alliance". This movement could have a much bigger base if it didn't trigger centre-left types with this stuff.
If 'centre left types are triggered by our National sport then there's not much that can be done I'm afraid, reality being of course that many people on the left attend football too, admittedly most seem to be Arsenal or Liverpool or Celtic fans, but still ;)

I'm sensing you're falling into the trap that many non fans fall into in assuming ALL football supporters are 1970's knuckle dragging skinhead hooligans wearing airwair boots and scare old ladies at bus stops. You don't work for the press do you?

free thoughtpolice
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Re: There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

#10560

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Kirbmarc wrote:
This is what happened in the US for many cultures, for example the Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Jews.
Yeah, but for instance the Germans sent good people over. Mexico and the shithole countries send over men that treat women like meat and think it's OK to just grab their pussies, swindle money out of hardworking contractors, launder money for foreign gangsters, and have no respect for the American democratic process or the rule of law and the agencies that uphold it.

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