There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

[SM1957]

Scrub that 'verdict has been reached' rubbish. There are so many Asian rape gang trials, it is hard to keep track of which is which.

But there is still no reporting on the case Voldemort was reporting on, even though reporting restrictions were lifted Tuesday

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Dafuq. There isn't a white genocide. I'm as tired as the next white guy about cis white male-bashing, but we're not being killed, rounded up or anything like that. Nobody has decimated the white race, even if that is a thing (which I doubt.)

Yeah, immigrants are moving in. I really don't care unless they have an unusually high propensity to break the law or attempt to overturn the values of the area they're moving to. Essentially Muslims, and not even all of them. Point them out if and when they cause problems. Or is there already a Chinese crime wave going on in Sydney? Keep me posted.

You clearly have a definition for “genocide” in mind. Did you make it up (please share) or is it an existing variant. If so which one did you go with?

It sounds like you are siding with (((those))) scholars who argue the only true genocide occurred in WWII - with nation state dividends.

You also probably side with Charny in arguing for the term “ethnocide” as an alternative descriptor for non-violent cultural obliteration. But I don’t want to put words into your mouth.

I have a preferred definition, which I stress is only one of a near infinite variations.

Genocide occurs when a source of collective power (typically the state) intentionally uses its
power base to implement a process of destruction in order to physically destroy a group (as
defined by the perpetrator) in whole or substantial part as a means to realise policy
objectives.

This would kinda fix the “destruction” definitional issue (though physically could mean over centuries) , fix the bullshit “in part” generalisation (albeit by introducing another non definite suggestion), steer the discussion of actor to a state level collective (which is a problem where the nation state breaks down like in Rwanda) and removes the problem of trying to come up with descriptions for social constructs (nations, religions, ethnic peoples). It also helps set parameters around intent (to avoid ‘accidental’ genocides which occur as byproducts of other initiatives)

Of course it would usher in the problem of a state sponsored genocide of witches ....

The Brazil Genocide people appear to be softer of who the perpetrator can be and the nature of the process of destruction.
Goldy is clearly looking at the specific non-lethal genocial actions listed by the UN and channeling Lemkin circa 1930.

So please. Enlighten me with your thought process.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms ... s=genocide

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
synonyms: mass murder, mass homicide, massacre; More
annihilation, extermination, elimination, liquidation, eradication, decimation, butchery, bloodletting;
pogrom, ethnic cleansing, holocaust
"a tyrant guilty of genocide"
Origin

1940s: from Greek genos ‘race’ + -cide.

But..but..muh UN!" Yes, let's rely for that definition on an organization that thinks Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu and Sarkesian are helpless victims of the patriarchy. You ask people what their definition of genocide is, it isn't going to be "white flight from the cities because foreigners are moving in."

I don't like your immigration policies either. But acting dramatic and claiming genocide is going to make the problem worse. Because a great number of people, even those that agree with you on generalities, are gonna back away from that word like a rattlesnake with lipstick. You can stretch the definition of genocide to include white flight (or am I missing something and white Australian people are being rounded up and killed en masse?) but it is a really bad idea. Steersman "menopausal females aren't women, of course" bad.

[John D]

Dave Rubin - seems to be about as interesting as whatever guest he has on. In this case I enjoyed it as it was Niall Ferguson - just wind him up and watch him go (really, the same talk could have been done even if Dave was not in the room).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdeFJ4WCqhk


- I'm still not sold on the 'Intellectual Dark Web' brand though.

I hate the description "Intellectual Dark Web". It sounds childish... like the bad guys in an episode of "Man from U.N.C.L.E." Remember when Dan Dennitt tried to get everyone to call themselves "Brights". Oh.... for the love of god!

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Dave Rubin - seems to be about as interesting as whatever guest he has on. In this case I enjoyed it as it was Niall Ferguson - just wind him up and watch him go (really, the same talk could have been done even if Dave was not in the room).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdeFJ4WCqhk


- I'm still not sold on the 'Intellectual Dark Web' brand though.

I hate the description "Intellectual Dark Web". It sounds childish... like the bad guys in an episode of "Man from U.N.C.L.E." Remember when Dan Dennitt tried to get everyone to call themselves "Brights". Oh.... for the love of god!

Which is unfortunate, because there are some very interesting people associated with it. I was talking about this with my wife, who asked me if they needed a name (probably) and what I would have called them. To be honest, I couldn't come up with anything better. Or worse.

[Shatterface]

It's not just 'people around him' that are football hooligans, it's Robinson himself. So what if more football hooligans are working class? Most of the victims of football hooliganism are also working class.

I don't see arguments in the Pit excusing other forms of gang violence just because the perpetrators are working class.

Millions of British people either go to Football matches up and down the country or watch it on TV every week. We invented the game, we have a love of the game equal to anywhere in the world. Football is our national sport, it's in our psyche in much the same way Baseball is in the US. 99.99% of football fans are not and have never been hooligans, to target them as you have done is frankly laughable in its dishonesty.
I suspect, like some of my family members, you have never been to or watched a match in your lives or at best not for some considerable time and that you have absolutely no understanding of what club rivalry means to fans. I suspect, like some of my family members, whenever you hear the words "Football Fans" you immediately conjure up an image of beer swilling skinheads in bovver boots and butchers coats frightening old ladies at bus stops, the kind of image a Sun newspaper cartoonist would tend to paint.

Hooliganism had it's peak in the 70's & 80's, you will be hard pressed to find any serious trouble at a match these days, most arrests are for misdemeanours like pitch encroachment, drunkenness or abusive language. Try looking at the arrest stats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 017-season

What the absolute FUCK are you on about? Targeting fans? Where the fuck did I do that? I never claimed football fans are fucking hooligans. I have been to football matches and I have family with season tickets. I work with people who lost family at Hillsborough. Where the cunting fuck do you get off with this shit?

I pointed out that Robinson being working class doesn't excuse him being a football hooligan. Especially since he was a football hooligan when it wasn't even trendy.

Football hooligans are gangs. It's fuck all to do with football as a game, or about supporting a team. It's fucking tribalism. The same fucking tribalism that motivated the EDL. The same tribalism that is making people here support a racist thug because of the colour of his skin.

[DrokkIt]

Which complex matrix of structural forces do you think are behind adopting a points system immigration model (as opposed to say ethnic quotas) and the setting of intake figures? “Big Australia” is formal Govt policy.

To hazard a guess I'd posit there is a general western attitude that race-based quotas are bad.

I don't know about Oz, but in the UK there are multiple financial reasons for immigration: cheap labour, *better skilled workforce*, ageing population needing ever-larger tax base to pay for healthcare etc etc. I'm not saying none of these reasons are related to an ideological outlook, but I am saying they aren't proof of a given secret policy to deliberately replace europeans.

The economic case, while people might accept it or not, would explain why a money-fixated party like the Tories would support immigration even if immigrants are more likely to support Labour and even if it kissed off their anti-immigration supporters.

It's the only credible motivation for supporting immigration.

Anyone who thinks the Tories are motivated by political correctness is deluded.

Anyone who thinks the Tories are motivated by some kind of white death-wish to commit auto-genocide is absolutely fucked in the head.

Totally fucking insane.

Beyond all fucking reasoning with.

We can argue about whether immigration will actually solve our economic problems, or about integration of large numbers of immigrants, but if you believe that there's some kind of genocide going on then you are just fucking mental.

Moreover, in the post cold-war economic consensus, is government really more powerful than economics?

I think the notion that a given government can control world-wide forces on the scale of global finance is misguided; and accordingly I have no trouble considering the actions of *most* modern euro governments as being purely reactive.

We all have no problem seeing how McDonnel's outright marxist agenda will lead to the country being crushed in by the might of economics; but some how the conservatives are just pursuing their own bizarre anti-white ideology? Or do they all have but limited purchase on the levers...

[comhcinc]

I'm sure it's all a ruse: the global islamophilic cabal the runs the country expects young people will spend it all on drugs and die of overdoses: for truly the kafir is debauched and behaves like an animal, bismillah.

It's a real shame that the current generation isn't killing itself off with drug overdoses. These kids don't know how to have any fun.

[John D]

I swear to fucking god.... we Mericans should just dismantle the UN and kick all those worms out of New York city... and out of the country.

I just don't think their clowning around helps anything. Although I admit to having a crush on Nikki Haley.

They actually passed a resolution that Detroit was committing a human rights offense by making people pay their water bills. Haha. They do this with everything... they define genocide so broadly that they could claim Merica is genociding negros.

[SM1957]

Football hooligans are gangs. It's fuck all to do with football as a game, or about supporting a team. It's fucking tribalism. The same fucking tribalism that motivated the EDL. The same tribalism that is making people here support a racist thug because of the colour of his skin.

Racist thug?

To be fair, Tommy Robinson did get in a couple of kicks as 7 masked Antifa people tried to beat him up outside McDonalds in March 2018

But the police did not arrest him for that. They turned a blind eye and didn't even investigate what had happened.

I think that if TR had hit somebody when it was not blatantly self-defense any time in the past 10 years, or even threatened anybody, we would know all about it.

[comhcinc]

It's not just 'people around him' that are football hooligans, it's Robinson himself. So what if more football hooligans are working class? Most of the victims of football hooliganism are also working class.

I don't see arguments in the Pit excusing other forms of gang violence just because the perpetrators are working class.

Millions of British people either go to Football matches up and down the country or watch it on TV every week. We invented the game, we have a love of the game equal to anywhere in the world. Football is our national sport, it's in our psyche in much the same way Baseball is in the US. 99.99% of football fans are not and have never been hooligans, to target them as you have done is frankly laughable in its dishonesty.
I suspect, like some of my family members, you have never been to or watched a match in your lives or at best not for some considerable time and that you have absolutely no understanding of what club rivalry means to fans. I suspect, like some of my family members, whenever you hear the words "Football Fans" you immediately conjure up an image of beer swilling skinheads in bovver boots and butchers coats frightening old ladies at bus stops, the kind of image a Sun newspaper cartoonist would tend to paint.

Hooliganism had it's peak in the 70's & 80's, you will be hard pressed to find any serious trouble at a match these days, most arrests are for misdemeanours like pitch encroachment, drunkenness or abusive language. Try looking at the arrest stats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 017-season

What the absolute FUCK are you on about? Targeting fans? Where the fuck did I do that? I never claimed football fans are fucking hooligans. I have been to football matches and I have family with season tickets. I work with people who lost family at Hillsborough. Where the cunting fuck do you get off with this shit?

I pointed out that Robinson being working class doesn't excuse him being a football hooligan. Especially since he was a football hooligan when it wasn't even trendy.

Football hooligans are gangs. It's fuck all to do with football as a game, or about supporting a team. It's fucking tribalism. The same fucking tribalism that motivated the EDL. The same tribalism that is making people here support a racist thug because of the colour of his skin.

I am sure this stuff is very serious but come on gentlemen. Football hooligans? Did you all get together and decided what is the silliest term you can come up with to call this issue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZnEpaSOFwk

[SM1957]

Pauline Hanson is coming to the UK.

Where's my passport?

[Brive1987]

“The deliberate killing of a large number of people especially ... “ is the least useful definition I’ve come across.

The Americans killed a lot of Japs in 1945. With intent. Genocide? Africans are killing white farmers. A large number. Deliberately. Genocide? Police are killing blacks in America. Deliberately. More than a few. Or so the narrative goes.

Useless.

[MarcusAu]

Spoiler warning for Shatterface's last post.

He's included plot summaries for at least two of Charles Stross's Laundry Files books in it.

[Brive1987]

Have i ever said anything other than the liberals in Oz (ie the Tories) are primarily motivated by anything other than economics of a pernicious nature?

But anyone who thinks the Govt doesn’t control Immigration specifics is deluded. You can’t turn the damn thing off overnight. But interest group fueled govt policy started this with Whitlam in the 1970s and the govt has the capacity to slowly turn the ship around. 70K a year would make a fine target and they don’t all have to come from China and India. Let alone Somalia.

Fair Dinkum as these people no doubt dream to be.

[Shatterface]

“The deliberate killing of a large number of people especially ... “ is the least useful definition I’ve come across.

The Americans killed a lot of Japs in 1945. With intent. Genocide? Africans are killing white farmers. A large number. Deliberately. Genocide? Police are killing blacks in America. Deliberately. More than a few. Or so the narrative goes.

Useless.

Killing people isn't a useful criteria for genocide but opening up few kebab shops is?

[Shatterface]

Have i ever said anything other than the liberals in Oz (ie the Tories) are primarily motivated by anything other than economics of a pernicious nature?

But anyone who thinks the Govt doesn’t control Immigration specifics is deluded. You can’t turn the damn thing off overnight. But interest group fueled govt policy started this with Whitlam in the 1970s and the govt has the capacity to slowly turn the ship around. 70K a year would make a fine target and they don’t all have to come from China and India. Let alone Somalia.

Fair Dinkum as these people no doubt dream to be.

And now you retreat to 'the Government could control immigration if it wanted to' argument instead of defending your 'white genocide' position.

Why are Western governments determined to exterminate their indigenous populations?

I am Glenn Close as Teresa May in Brive's apocalyptic blockbuster The Fall of Western Civilisation.

Explain my motivation to me.

[Tigzy]

I don't know about Oz, but in the UK there are multiple financial reasons for immigration: cheap labour, *better skilled workforce*, ageing population needing ever-larger tax base to pay for healthcare etc etc. I'm not saying none of these reasons are related to an ideological outlook, but I am saying they aren't proof of a given secret policy to deliberately replace europeans.

The white genocide proponents are making the classic mistake of attributing malice to stupidity.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Dave Rubin - seems to be about as interesting as whatever guest he has on. In this case I enjoyed it as it was Niall Ferguson - just wind him up and watch him go (really, the same talk could have been done even if Dave was not in the room).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdeFJ4WCqhk


- I'm still not sold on the 'Intellectual Dark Web' brand though.

Rubin is lame.

[Shatterface]

Even Sp!ked aren't going with the Tommy Robinson, Free Speech Martyr narrative:

But Robinson is no free-speech martyr, either. Some say he has been ‘targeted’ by the British state for his work ‘exposing’ the ‘Islamification’ of Britain. Some have talked about a media ‘blackout’ after his arrest. But the complete details of why he was arrested were published today, and this was only delayed because of further conditions imposed by the court. The idea that Robinson was arrested for his ideas is contrary to what we know about the case. Anyone else doing what Robinson did, in these circumstances, would also have been arrested and jailed.

The reaction to Robinson’s arrest shows us how confused the free-speech debate has become. On the left, free speech is dismissed as a tool for the spread of fascist ideas. On the right, it is invoked in situations that have little or nothing to do with the free exchange of ideas. Arguing for free speech does not mean arguing for the right of anyone to do or say anything they want at any time. Contempt-of-court laws, which Robinson seems determined to violate, are not in and of themselves an attack on free speech. They represent a narrow curb on what can be said and when, so as to make sure trials aren’t prejudiced. There may well be occasions in which such laws are used by the police to limit free speech. But Robinson’s arrest was not an example of this. The men he targeted are entitled to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence. Robinson was not arrested because of what he said. He was arrested because of when and how he chose to say it.

Free speech is too important for us to allow it to be consistently warped and slandered by both left and right. Free speech is about allowing a free and unhindered exchange of ideas. But, at the same time, we must recognise that the reason Robinson has a career is that we have become overly sensitive as a society to the kind of arguments he makes. He is a product not of too much free speech, but of too little. His arrest is not symbolic of a state conspiracy to shut him up. But it is at least connected to our continuing discomfort with discussing certain ideas.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/ar ... xAI9kHTXYU

[JayTeeAitch]

Scrub that 'verdict has been reached' rubbish. There are so many Asian rape gang trials, it is hard to keep track of which is which.

But there is still no reporting on the case Voldemort was reporting on, even though reporting restrictions were lifted Tuesday

Restrictions were lifted on just the TR court case. A journalist from a Leeds paper argued, successfully, that nothing that was said during the TR case would jeopardise the outcome of those other cases.

[DrokkIt]

I don't know about Oz, but in the UK there are multiple financial reasons for immigration: cheap labour, *better skilled workforce*, ageing population needing ever-larger tax base to pay for healthcare etc etc. I'm not saying none of these reasons are related to an ideological outlook, but I am saying they aren't proof of a given secret policy to deliberately replace europeans.

The white genocide proponents are making the classic mistake of attributing malice to stupidity.

The whole thing is also an example of the a priori fallacy: beginning with a belief and then using any means to rationalise it.
In this case: intimating that a long period of decision making is demonstrably a single ideology. Then when this is pointed out, off they run to the bailey position of "well look at these statistics" that you don't even dispute.

Same mindset heavily present in BLM extremists.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

“The deliberate killing of a large number of people especially ... “ is the least useful definition I’ve come across.

The Americans killed a lot of Japs in 1945. With intent. Genocide? Africans are killing white farmers. A large number. Deliberately. Genocide? Police are killing blacks in America. Deliberately. More than a few. Or so the narrative goes.

Useless.

The term "genocide" is used far too flippantly. BLM declared the c. 500 justified homicides of black perps per annum "genocide" and no one batted an eye.

What's going in in Australia is not, imo, anywhere close to genocide. (SA is on the precipice.) It is, however, a deliberate effort by a small elite clique to 'multiculturalize' the country, along with an idiotic plan to double the population on a fragile and already severely overtaxed island/continent ecosystem. Apparently none of these social engineers remember the droughts of just a few years ago.


In response to another comment: no, the Chinese aren't moslem, but they are the fucking locusts of the human race. They scour, use up, and leave everything trashed in their wake. Rapidly import large numbers of Chinese directly from China, with no hope of assimilating them into the existing culture, and they will scour, use up, and trash your place, too. Christ, several unique thermal pools in Yellowstone were severely & permanently damaged when hordes of Chinese tourists knocked down the guard rail and stomped all over them to have a closer look.

It's also vital to recognize that China for some time has been embarked on a long-term, somewhat stealthy, plan to dominate the entire world. They absolutely fucking raped much of Africa, making deals with local corrupt potentates to strip entire nations of their natural resources for a handful of yuan, then folding up tents and leaving the places in disarray. With the failure of its one-child policy, China kills two birds with one stone by actively exporting its surplus population. They do not assimilate, have no intention of assimilating, and pose a very real threat of acting as a Fifth Column.

Ah, but it's all worth the take-out, amirite?

[SM1957]

Scrub that 'verdict has been reached' rubbish. There are so many Asian rape gang trials, it is hard to keep track of which is which.

But there is still no reporting on the case Voldemort was reporting on, even though reporting restrictions were lifted Tuesday

Restrictions were lifted on just the TR court case. A journalist from a Leeds paper argued, successfully, that nothing that was said during the TR case would jeopardise the outcome of those other cases.

No , reporting restrictions were lifted on Tuesday at 12:52 on cases T20177360 T20187130 Faisal Nadeem
Mansoor Akhtar Manzoor Hassan Mohammed Asaf Akram Mohammed Azeem..

[Lsuoma]

Pugh Pugh Barney McGrew Cuthbert Dibble Grub

[Tigzy]

The whole thing is also an example of the a priori fallacy: beginning with a belief and then using any means to rationalise it.
In this case: intimating that a long period of decision making is demonstrably a single ideology. Then when this is pointed out, off they run to the bailey position of "well look at these statistics" that you don't even dispute.

Same mindset heavily present in BLM extremists.

And the funny thing is, what's the betting that this long period of decision making was based largely on ill-thought out political short termism? I'd say the chances were good, or at least better than it being the result of some focussed ideological drive.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I don't know about Oz, but in the UK there are multiple financial reasons for immigration: cheap labour, *better skilled workforce*, ageing population needing ever-larger tax base to pay for healthcare etc etc. I'm not saying none of these reasons are related to an ideological outlook, but I am saying they aren't proof of a given secret policy to deliberately replace europeans.
[...]
The whole thing is also an example of the a priori fallacy: beginning with a belief and then using any means to rationalise it.

That observation applies equally to the proponents of immigration. The alleged financial reasons are but rationalizations, and palpably thin ones when examined with a modicum of scrutiny. The goals of acquiring 'cheap labor' and 'better skilled workforce' are incompatible. And whether the population to be added is better skilled or not, the premise that it will solve the aging population bubble has been conclusively disproven. Hell, the magnitude of the aging problem hasn't even been properly quantified by the chicken littles.

It's naive to assume that, because Tories traditionally haven't quite been huge proponents of multiculturalism, that they aren't now playing a cynical political gambit to hang on to power by slipping through an ideological Scylla and Charybdis.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Even news rooms experience white genocide

It's not "white genocide", and you or Goldy using the term is severely counterproductive, obliterating any valid points that might otherwise be made. I mean seriously, drop it. (You may continue fapping to Goldy, however.)

What this photo displays is, OTOH, the SJW concept of 'diversity': an actual lack of diversity, only with the tables turned. The desired outcome of the neo-marxist power struggle among identities.

#ThunderThighsMatter

[DrokkIt]

That observation applies equally to the proponents of immigration.

Yes it does.

The alleged financial reasons are but rationalizations, and palpably thin ones when examined with a modicum of scrutiny. The goals of acquiring 'cheap labor' and 'better skilled workforce' are incompatible. And whether the population to be added is better skilled or not, the premise that it will solve the aging population bubble has been conclusively disproven.

Yes it has. After the fact though, once this stuff was already in play.

It's naive to assume that, because Tories traditionally haven't quite been huge proponents of multiculturalism, that they aren't now playing a cynical political gambit to hang on to power by slipping through an ideological Scylla and Charybdis.

I don't assume that, nor do I claim, it.

The Tories may not be traditional proponents of multiculturalism, but they 100% ARE the traditional proponents of doing things like *joining the EEC* in the first place (something which Labour was once avidly against) and shutting down industry... do we think this is because of their ideological commitment to these particular things, or because it most the best short-term financial sense at the time?

My argument is simply that there are a multitude of ways to rationalise the vague decision making of the UK 1970-onwards, and that the "replacement theory" is unsubstantiated. At least it is when it's adherents make actual claims.

I am not arguing for mass migration. Nor am I arguing the outcomes wrought by a long period of neolib ideas is any good. I am simply objecting to what seems to me an unfounded and reactionary narrative that deliberately uses evocative language to conjure a sense of cultural nostalgia, that upon investigation is relying on the very same identity politics and Lyotardian word games of term re-definition as does intersectionalism.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Re: Tommy Robinson

One additional aspect, I think is fairly important, is the class aspect. It isn’t Kate&Wills kids being raped by Muslims. It’s lower class girls. When it comes to football hooligans, almost all of them are also from lower class backgrounds. Harry can wear a Nazi uniform and it doesn’t really affect him. That the people around Tommy have an over representation of hooligans therefore shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s also one of the reasons nothing was done. Those people are expendable. If it were JK Rowlings kids being raped in the 90s, Mecca would have been glass long ago.

It's not just 'people around him' that are football hooligans, it's Robinson himself. So what if more football hooligans are working class? Most of the victims of football hooliganism are also working class.

I don't see arguments in the Pit excusing other forms of gang violence just because the perpetrators are working class.

Millions of British people either go to Football matches up and down the country or watch it on TV every week. We invented the game, we have a love of the game equal to anywhere in the world. Football is our national sport, it's in our psyche in much the same way Baseball is in the US. 99.99% of football fans are not and have never been hooligans, to target them as you have done is frankly laughable in its dishonesty.
I suspect, like some of my family members, you have never been to or watched a match in your lives or at best not for some considerable time and that you have absolutely no understanding of what club rivalry means to fans. I suspect, like some of my family members, whenever you hear the words "Football Fans" you immediately conjure up an image of beer swilling skinheads in bovver boots and butchers coats frightening old ladies at bus stops, the kind of image a Sun newspaper cartoonist would tend to paint.

Hooliganism had it's peak in the 70's & 80's, you will be hard pressed to find any serious trouble at a match these days, most arrests are for misdemeanours like pitch encroachment, drunkenness or abusive language. Try looking at the arrest stats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 017-season

A couple of decades ago European police forces had it in for English fans. There were instances in the Netherlands and Italy of the police taking a collective punishment approach to traveling English fans and beating the crap out any fans who happened to be within a country of the match venue. English tourists on vacation were attacked by the police. The response of the UK gubmint was essentially "good, serves the yobs right". I think that that attitude is part of the current failure to tackle problems with a certain category of immigrant. The elite simply cannot see the pushback as anything other than bigotry by the unwashed so they respond by protecting those poor Islamic victims of the hate-speaking thugs. They try to play down the obvious excesses of the fundies s because they can't trust the nasty Englanders not to overreact. After all it's just a tiny fraction of the Islamic community, isn't it. Result is more anger and frustration.

I do wonder what obligations toward the Islamic world Europe signed up to with the Barcelona Declaration and how much the oil money behind defence contracts influences things.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Re: Tommy Robinson

One additional aspect, I think is fairly important, is the class aspect. It isn’t Kate&Wills kids being raped by Muslims. It’s lower class girls. When it comes to football hooligans, almost all of them are also from lower class backgrounds. Harry can wear a Nazi uniform and it doesn’t really affect him. That the people around Tommy have an over representation of hooligans therefore shouldn’t be a surprise. It’s also one of the reasons nothing was done. Those people are expendable. If it were JK Rowlings kids being raped in the 90s, Mecca would have been glass long ago.

It's not just 'people around him' that are football hooligans, it's Robinson himself. So what if more football hooligans are working class? Most of the victims of football hooliganism are also working class.

I don't see arguments in the Pit excusing other forms of gang violence just because the perpetrators are working class.

Just to be clear, are you saying that Robinson IS a football hooligan? Are you saying that he currently takes part in football hooliganism I'd hate to think that you were anything other than objective in your assessment of the man.

[Old_ones]

“The deliberate killing of a large number of people especially ... “ is the least useful definition I’ve come across.

The Americans killed a lot of Japs in 1945. With intent. Genocide? Africans are killing white farmers. A large number. Deliberately. Genocide? Police are killing blacks in America. Deliberately. More than a few. Or so the narrative goes.

Useless.

Oh, I don't know. You could say that mass killing is "necessary but not sufficient" to claim a genocide and then it seems a little less useless. If you then tack on the part where the people doing the killing also have to be trying to destroy a certain group of people (like the definition from merriam webster) then I don't see the problem. It excludes legitimate cases of policing and warfare, and also cases where groups voluntarily start interbreeding. All of that would be terribly inconvenient for white genocide theorists, though.

[Shatterface]

I'm saying Robinson is a football hooligan on the basis of his convictions for football hooliganism that overlap with his membership of the EDL and that can't be separated from it. If you get in a ruck with other football supporters while chanting 'EDL until I die' don't bitch about the arrest being 'politically motivated'. The most recent recorded incident was 2016. Hrs not some teenager with raging hormones and an immature brain. Whatever cognitive deficits he has now, he's stuck with.

Am I objective in my assessment? I'm not the one getting a stiffy over a 'brave' martyr for the cause. I'm just somebody who has met hundreds of ex-offenders and can differentiate between people who fucked up once or twice and habitual offenders who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. I am absolutely certain that he'll get arrested again at some point for doing the same shit he did this time.

[Bhurzum]

Just to be clear, are you saying that Robinson IS a football hooligan? Are you saying that he currently takes part in football hooliganism I'd hate to think that you were anything other than objective in your assessment of the man.

"Not only is he a football casual, he turned me into a newt!" - The left.

[SM1957]

I'm saying Robinson is a football hooligan on the basis of his convictions for football hooliganism that overlap with his membership of the EDL and that can't be separated from it. If you get in a ruck with other football supporters while chanting 'EDL until I die' don't bitch about the arrest being 'politically motivated'. The most recent recorded incident was 2016. Hrs not some teenager with raging hormones and an immature brain. Whatever cognitive deficits he has now, he's stuck with.

Am I objective in my assessment? I'm not the one getting a stiffy over a 'brave' martyr for the cause. I'm just somebody who has met hundreds of ex-offenders and can differentiate between people who fucked up once or twice and habitual offenders who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. I am absolutely certain that he'll get arrested again at some point for doing the same shit he did this time.

here is a police statement saying that the group involving Tommy Robinson left peacefully. No charges were ever brought. No 'ruck' ever happened

http://www.cambridgeshire-pcc.gov.uk/st ... gust-2016/



https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... e-14298618

There was no 'ruck'' There was no football hooliganism.

[piginthecity]

Pugh Pugh Barney McGrew Cuthbert Dibble Grub

Why bring Noel Plum into it ?

[comhcinc]

"football hooliganism".......


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Matt Cavanaugh]

That observation applies equally to the proponents of immigration.

Yes it does.

The alleged financial reasons are but rationalizations, and palpably thin ones when examined with a modicum of scrutiny. The goals of acquiring 'cheap labor' and 'better skilled workforce' are incompatible. And whether the population to be added is better skilled or not, the premise that it will solve the aging population bubble has been conclusively disproven.

Yes it has. After the fact though, once this stuff was already in play.

It's naive to assume that, because Tories traditionally haven't quite been huge proponents of multiculturalism, that they aren't now playing a cynical political gambit to hang on to power by slipping through an ideological Scylla and Charybdis.

I don't assume that, nor do I claim, it.

The Tories may not be traditional proponents of multiculturalism, but they 100% ARE the traditional proponents of doing things like *joining the EEC* in the first place (something which Labour was once avidly against) and shutting down industry... do we think this is because of their ideological commitment to these particular things, or because it most the best short-term financial sense at the time?

My argument is simply that there are a multitude of ways to rationalise the vague decision making of the UK 1970-onwards, and that the "replacement theory" is unsubstantiated. At least it is when it's adherents make actual claims.

I am not arguing for mass migration. Nor am I arguing the outcomes wrought by a long period of neolib ideas is any good. I am simply objecting to what seems to me an unfounded and reactionary narrative that deliberately uses evocative language to conjure a sense of cultural nostalgia, that upon investigation is relying on the very same identity politics and Lyotardian word games of term re-definition as does intersectionalism.

Agreed on all points.

[free thoughtpolice]

Brivesman wrote:

Goldy is clearly looking at the specific non-lethal genocial actions listed by the UN and channeling Lemkin circa 1930.

So please. Enlighten me with your thought process.

You brought up Lemkin again? A few days ago I addressed how St. Goldy's usage of genocide doesn't fit the Lemkin definition.

Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[11]

Did you read that the first time I posted it? Or maybe you forgot all about in just a few days? Do you want to claim that is what is happening in Canada?
I get it that you don't like admitting when you are wrong, but wake the fuck up. It's not the other side wearing the dunce cap here.

[shoutinghorse]

I'm saying Robinson is a football hooligan on the basis of his convictions for football hooliganism that overlap with his membership of the EDL and that can't be separated from it. If you get in a ruck with other football supporters while chanting 'EDL until I die' don't bitch about the arrest being 'politically motivated'. The most recent recorded incident was 2016. Hrs not some teenager with raging hormones and an immature brain. Whatever cognitive deficits he has now, he's stuck with.

Am I objective in my assessment? I'm not the one getting a stiffy over a 'brave' martyr for the cause. I'm just somebody who has met hundreds of ex-offenders and can differentiate between people who fucked up once or twice and habitual offenders who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions. I am absolutely certain that he'll get arrested again at some point for doing the same shit he did this time.

here is a police statement saying that the group involving Tommy Robinson left peacefully. No charges were ever brought. No 'ruck' ever happened

http://www.cambridgeshire-pcc.gov.uk/st ... gust-2016/



https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... e-14298618

There was no 'ruck'' There was no football hooliganism.

Pointless excersize SM .. shatterface has shown himself to be just as bogoted as he accuses Robinson of, he says he works with former offenders but refuses to accept that TR is a former hooligan, I'm not sure at this point if he actually understands what the word means. If by saying "The most recent recorded incident was 2016" (presumably evidence of Robinson's ongoing hoolie activities) he means when Robinson was forced by the police out of a pub in Cambridge whilst watching a match on TV with his children and then frogmarched to the railway station to 'Get outta Town' then I'm afraid he has no concept of what the word hooligan means either.

Anyway, I'm done with him now, I will no longer converse with him on the matter. lifes too short.

[free thoughtpolice]

[Shatterface]

Well put me on ignore then, but the ruck I specifically referred to where Robinson was shouting 'EDL till I die' led to a 12 month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours' unpaid work and a 3-year ban from attending football matches.

[Shatterface]

"football hooliganism".......


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe we should have given it a sensible name - like 'mugging'. Because there's nothing silly-sounding about that, and it was invented in the USA

It might sound amusing or quaint but it cost dozens of lives in the Seventies and Eighties. Without the measures meant to control it we wouldn't have had the Hillsborough disaster.

[DrokkIt]

Brivesman wrote:

Goldy is clearly looking at the specific non-lethal genocial actions listed by the UN and channeling Lemkin circa 1930.

So please. Enlighten me with your thought process.

You brought up Lemkin again? A few days ago I addressed how St. Goldy's usage of genocide doesn't fit the Lemkin definition.

Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[11]

Did you read that the first time I posted it? Or maybe you forgot all about in just a few days? Do you want to claim that is what is happening in Canada?
I get it that you don't like admitting when you are wrong, but wake the fuck up. It's not the other side wearing the dunce cap here.

Ah, the sociological definition of 'genocide'. I guess there's no such thing as reverse genocide either?

:D

[comhcinc]

For the record, Ol Shatterface is okay in my book and he knows about my checkered past.

"football hooliganism".......


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe we should have given it a sensible name - like 'mugging'. Because there's nothing silly-sounding about that, and it was invented in the USA

It might sound amusing or quaint but it cost dozens of lives in the Seventies and Eighties. Without the measures meant to control it we wouldn't have had the Hillsborough disaster.

I do understand it's a real problem but I am a bad person and I giggle like a school girl at all this weird talk you people do.

You know Americans and our accents are more correct right?

[Shatterface]

Even Brive's attempt at a sociological definition fails because it refers to intent to annihilate.

I'm ready for my close-up, Mr DeMille. I'm Teresa May - what's my motivation for self-genocide?

I don't need Hamlet, I'm just looking for something that would satisfy Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich.

I have the intention to annihilate my own ethnic group. What's my motivation?

[shoutinghorse]

Well put me on ignore then, but the ruck I specifically referred to where Robinson was shouting 'EDL till I die' led to a 12 month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours' unpaid work and a 3-year ban from attending football matches.

Okay I'll bite again .. Do you mean the ruck in 2011, seven years ago (former hooligan) and the banning order that he appealed against and won in 2016?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 84f7f1fcb1

Now I'm gone, I don't put anyone on ignore, no hard feelings mate, as I said, life's too short. ;)

[Shatterface]

I do understand it's a real problem but I am a bad person and I giggle like a school girl at all this weird talk you people do.

You know Americans and our accents are more correct right?

Yeah, but your country's most terrifying criminals of the last century were called 'bootleggers.'

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Even Brive's attempt at a sociological definition fails because it refers to intent to annihilate.

I'm ready for my close-up, Mr DeMille. I'm Teresa May - what's my motivation for self-genocide?

I don't need Hamlet, I'm just looking for something that would satisfy Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich.

I have the intention to annihilate my own ethnic group. What's my motivation?

Money from islamic Gulf states?

[comhcinc]

I do understand it's a real problem but I am a bad person and I giggle like a school girl at all this weird talk you people do.

You know Americans and our accents are more correct right?

Yeah, but your country's most terrifying criminals of the last century were called 'bootleggers.'

I disagree.
https://www.monstersandcritics.com/wp-c ... e-gacy.jpg

[Shatterface]

Well put me on ignore then, but the ruck I specifically referred to where Robinson was shouting 'EDL till I die' led to a 12 month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours' unpaid work and a 3-year ban from attending football matches.

Okay I'll bite again .. Do you mean the ruck in 2011, seven years ago (former hooligan) and the banning order that he appealed against and won in 2016?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 84f7f1fcb1

Now I'm gone, I don't put anyone on ignore, no hard feelings mate, as I said, life's too short. ;)

The 'EDL till I die' incident was the earlier incident. That's why I referred to it before I mentioned the 2016 incident. And I don't take getting arrested for something different as 'reformation'. Saying ''He's not a football hooligan anymore, and he's given up mortgage fraud too, he's just guilty of contempt of court these days' isn't evidence of a reformed character.

[MarcusAu]

Even Brive's attempt at a sociological definition fails because it refers to intent to annihilate.

I'm ready for my close-up, Mr DeMille. I'm Teresa May - what's my motivation for self-genocide?

I don't need Hamlet, I'm just looking for something that would satisfy Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich.

I have the intention to annihilate my own ethnic group. What's my motivation?

Money from islamic Gulf states?

Nihilism, Satanic evil or the will to follow a Lovecraftian narrative.

[InfraRedBucket]

"football hooliganism".......


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe we should have given it a sensible name - like 'mugging'. Because there's nothing silly-sounding about that, and it was invented in the USA

It might sound amusing or quaint but it cost dozens of lives in the Seventies and Eighties. Without the measures meant to control it we wouldn't have had the Hillsborough disaster.

It's like the word "vandal", originally a tribe, but Hooligan probably came from a family name associated with a certain young rowdiness.
It also ( I think I posted this before) is an Irish folk dance....

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

^Finally a bit of sense in this discussion!

[shoutinghorse]

Cunt doesn't want Cunt used by men cos women have Cunt's and so only they can say Cunt.

[free thoughtpolice]

In case you haven't had a good cringe lately, a polyamory podcast with Trav Mamone. Bonus: Hyena Dadhaboy is on the panel! :dance:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/bianymeans ... sa-mccool/

[comhcinc]

Cunt doesn't want Cunt used by men cos women have Cunt's and so only they can say Cunt.

I'm fine with that.

BTW I am trans and if you ever see me use the word cunt, it's when I am feeling like a woman. I, of course, don't always feel like a woman and there is no way to tell when and where I do.

Thanks for being good allies.

[MarcusAu]

I think 'The Time of Their Lives (2017)' counts as the most disapointing movie remake ever.

Watching the original now - it's fucking brilliant!

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Cunt doesn't want Cunt used by men cos women have Cunt's and so only they can say Cunt.

Yet the little hypocrite has used the word "dick" innumerable times. What a cunt.

[InfraRedBucket]

Re: Germaine Greer on Rape.
She's actually been quite consistent on this, I remember about 15/20 years ago , on a BBC programme, QuestionTime
basically saying "Rape isnt as bad as some people make out".
Here's a fuller report on what she said:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... be-reduced

[InfraRedBucket]

Cunt doesn't want Cunt used by men cos women have Cunt's and so only they can say Cunt.

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