Fuck off, Jamie!

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#421

Post by dog puke » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:27 pm

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Puking in front of the admission nurse works, too.
Puking works in most situations. I highly recommend it. :twatson:

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#422

Post by KiwiInOz » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:33 pm

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:11 pm
Shatterface wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:54 pm
Tigzy wrote: England just won a penalty shootout.
To put it into sporting terms Americans might understand: this is like Mike Tyson getting to first base with Tiger Woods. Or something.
To put it into sporting terms Americans might understand: for three hours, nothing happened. So then they had to take an extra five minutes to decide a winner.
I think that I'm seeing the problem here. You Yanks are used to seeing short bursts of sport between the ad breaks, which is why they take three hours or more to get a result.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#423

Post by KiwiInOz » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:34 pm

dog puke wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Puking in front of the admission nurse works, too.
Puking works in most situations. I highly recommend it. :twatson:
Get thee to the Vomitorium.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#424

Post by dog puke » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:37 pm

And the very best to you Dogen!

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#425

Post by dog puke » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:39 pm

KiwiInOz wrote:
dog puke wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Puking in front of the admission nurse works, too.
Puking works in most situations. I highly recommend it. :twatson:
Get thee to the Vomitorium.
Shall I escape calumny?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#426

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:04 pm

Happy Birthday America...and be careful...

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#427

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:05 pm

MarcusAu wrote: Happy Birthday America...and be careful...

[tweet.][/tweet]

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#428

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:05 pm

Ms Pettinane has a discussion with an Amazonian described as a “Russian political activist” on feminism.

She seems remarkably perceptive for fem-bot.

http://i.imgur.com/hfmEvrD.jpg

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#429

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:07 pm

I swear there is only a 1:3 correlation between what I stab at on the glass and what gets spat out.

:bjarte: Preview is your friend.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#430

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:15 pm

Remember when that dude got in doxed and flayed by CNN for a dank meme?

Imagine if this got the WH seal of approval? :lol:


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#431

Post by Brive1987 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:31 pm

This is a very interesting snippet of an interview between the BBC and the Hungarian foreign minister over immigration.

Beyond his standing of his ground, the most compelling thing is the unbridled hostility of the woman.

And her unintentional irony when she complains of border security, saying “but Hungary doesn’t have a migrant problem”.
:lol: :lol:


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#432

Post by Shatterface » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:41 pm

Hungary is one Billy Elliot away from going gay.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#433

Post by MarcusAu » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:59 pm

Brive - do you have someone you can talk to at home about your concerns?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#434

Post by Bhurzum » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:33 am

Sorry, can't resist dropping this here, it's too funny/interesting. Pair of theist/Christian YT'rs who "react" to rock and heavy metal videos get into a debate over toxic masculinity, male privilege and other assorted gubbins. As the conversation unfolds, some of their reasoning, logic and justification(s) are highly amusing.

Sorry if this type of content is cancerous but I thought some of you might enjoy it...


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#435

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:50 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Today’s hashtag cause.

http.s://twitter.com/celtic_maiden/status/1014256993576595456?s=21
The one on the top left looks frisky. Too bad she's dead.
“Contemporaries described Maria as a pretty, flirtatious girl, broadly built, with light brown hair and large blue eyes that were known in the family as Marie's saucers”

“Young Maria enjoyed innocent flirtations with the young soldiers she encountered at the palace and on family holidays. She particularly loved children and, had she not been a Grand Duchess, would have loved nothing more than to marry a Russian soldier and raise a large family”

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#436

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:12 am

If I had a choice between living as a peasant in Tsarist Russia, or as a citizen under the Soviet regime - I would really not know which to choose.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#437

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:27 am

MarcusAu wrote: If I had a choice between living as a peasant in Tsarist Russia, or as a citizen under the Soviet regime - I would really not know which to choose.
Better a post 1861 peasant complaining of taxes and the big land owners than a newly minted serf udergoing collectivism during the Holodomor.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#438

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:30 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Today’s hashtag cause.

http.s://twitter.com/celtic_maiden/status/1014256993576595456?s=21
The one on the top left looks frisky. Too bad she's dead.
“Contemporaries described Maria as a pretty, flirtatious girl, broadly built, with light brown hair and large blue eyes that were known in the family as Marie's saucers”

“Young Maria enjoyed innocent flirtations with the young soldiers she encountered at the palace and on family holidays. She particularly loved children and, had she not been a Grand Duchess, would have loved nothing more than to marry a Russian soldier and raise a large family”
Alas, young Maria had her face smashed in after regaining consciousness (on the stretchers carting her family out) having already been shot and bayoneted.

So yes. Less frisky indeed.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#439

Post by Keating » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:01 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:12 am
If I had a choice between living as a peasant in Tsarist Russia, or as a citizen under the Soviet regime - I would really not know which to choose.
An ancestor of mine was knighted by Catherine the Great. The Russian Revolution is what ended my family living in the Baltics.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#440

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:14 am

Surprisingly enough - it's not really my area of expertise. But I'm sure people will be arguing for centuries whether the Russian (or French come to that) revolution was inevitable.

Or to put it in a less palatable way: "Did the Tsars have it coming?"

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#441

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:33 am

1905 expended the Tsar’s capital with the urban peasants. His taking unsucccessful command of the army in 1915 and leaving the running of the place to his wife sealed the deal.

In sad simpatico with myself, his presence was no longer desired.

:(

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#442

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:53 am

Brive1987 wrote: 1905 expended the Tsar’s capital with the urban peasants. His taking unsucccessful command of the army in 1915 and leaving the running of the place to his wife sealed the deal.

In sad simpatico with myself, his presence was no longer desired.

:(
Surprisingly enough we have evidence that there are people in Russia today are concerned about the happiness of the average Western citizen. (Which I must admit goes counter to my, perhaps stereotypical, impression). There you go - somebody loves you Brive.

You know people have attributed a lot of bad things to Stalin - but at least he never used emoticons.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#443

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:56 am

Happy birthday to the 🇺🇸 Even if your origin story runs thick with disloyalty, treason and terrorism. :mrgreen:

Strangely PZ is fine with this. It’s his current country where he wants blood to flow. Or at least rain to fall. I’m betting his “fasting” is because Mary forgot to do his shopping before the one Morris supermarket closed for the day.
Has anyone else lost all interest in celebrating the 4th of July?

I know I have. There is a lot of high sentiment in that ol’ declaration of independence, but 240+ years of this country failing to live up to them, and now deciding to just give up and abandon every noble principle expressed in it, doesn’t leave me feeling like commemorating much of anything.

This will be a good day for fasting, working, and watching the rain come down (it’s a thunderstorm day here in Morris, good for Nature for putting a wet blanket on the annoying fireworks


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#445

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:03 am

I must say American national day celebrations certainly takes all shapes and forms.


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#446

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:03 am

That's the last straw for me.

Fuck that guy.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#447

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:04 am

Stalin, I mean...

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#448

Post by screwtape » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:19 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Today’s hashtag cause.

"Remember Europe"? Silly me, I always thought Russia was in Asia.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#449

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:31 am

Brive1987 wrote: Happy birthday to the 🇺🇸 Even if your origin story runs thick with disloyalty, treason and terrorism. :mrgreen:

Strangely PZ is fine with this. It’s his current country where he wants blood to flow. Or at least rain to fall. I’m betting his “fasting” is because Mary forgot to do his shopping before the one Morris supermarket closed for the day.
Has anyone else lost all interest in celebrating the 4th of July?

I know I have. There is a lot of high sentiment in that ol’ declaration of independence, but 240+ years of this country failing to live up to them, and now deciding to just give up and abandon every noble principle expressed in it, doesn’t leave me feeling like commemorating much of anything.

This will be a good day for fasting, working, and watching the rain come down (it’s a thunderstorm day here in Morris, good for Nature for putting a wet blanket on the annoying fireworks
I had to go check you hadn't selectively edited him Fasting? These people need to just admit they miss religion and its comforting black/white stolidness.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#450

Post by Shatterface » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:40 am

dog puke wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Puking in front of the admission nurse works, too.
Puking works in most situations. I highly recommend it. :twatson:
Also, bleeding from the eyes gets attention.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#451

Post by Shatterface » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:45 am

MarcusAu wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: 1905 expended the Tsar’s capital with the urban peasants. His taking unsucccessful command of the army in 1915 and leaving the running of the place to his wife sealed the deal.

In sad simpatico with myself, his presence was no longer desired.

:(
Surprisingly enough we have evidence that there are people in Russia today are concerned about the happiness of the average Western citizen. (Which I must admit goes counter to my, perhaps stereotypical, impression). There you go - somebody loves you Brive.

You know people have attributed a lot of bad things to Stalin - but at least he never used emoticons.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/cyb ... 0614083152

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#452

Post by Kirbmarc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:46 am

screwtape wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Today’s hashtag cause.

"Remember Europe"? Silly me, I always thought Russia was in Asia.
It is, when it's not.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#453

Post by Brive1987 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:07 am

screwtape wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Today’s hashtag cause.

https.://twitter.com/celtic_maiden/status/1014256993576595456?s=21
"Remember Europe"? Silly me, I always thought Russia was in Asia.
The Urals are the standard divide.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#454

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:00 am

Brive1987 wrote: The Urals are the standard divide.
Are you taking the piss?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#455

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:01 am

Brive1987 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: Today’s hashtag cause.

http.s://twitter.com/celtic_maiden/status/1014256993576595456?s=21
The one on the top left looks frisky. Too bad she's dead.
“Contemporaries described Maria as a pretty, flirtatious girl, broadly built, with light brown hair and large blue eyes that were known in the family as Marie's saucers”

“Young Maria enjoyed innocent flirtations with the young soldiers she encountered at the palace and on family holidays. She particularly loved children and, had she not been a Grand Duchess, would have loved nothing more than to marry a Russian soldier and raise a large family”
I know how to pick 'em.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#456

Post by comhcinc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:20 am

Wait did England win their kickball game? Was the king watching? Did some Asian Muslims groom some hooligans?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#457

Post by comhcinc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:59 am

Also, what the fuck is a Neymar?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#458

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:10 am

comhcinc wrote: Also, what the fuck is a Neymar?
I think it's a type of Henway.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#459

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:15 am

Tuvok to the bridge! A Peezophile shows up at WEIT:

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... nt-1631330

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#460

Post by comhcinc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:16 am

MarcusAu wrote:
comhcinc wrote: Also, what the fuck is a Neymar?
I think it's a type of Henway.
So about 3 pounds.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#461

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:53 am

Heh.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#462

Post by dog puke » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:16 am

Happy Birthday US Americans. :gay-rainbowflag:

Happy belated Birthday Kanada. :confusion-helpsos:

Belated Happy Birthday to the Pit. :obscene-smokingsombrero:

Cheers to FT for keeping this place running. This place is a bastion of sanity for which I am forever thankful*. :clap:



*Ape+Lust is worth the price of admission alone. :burn:

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#463

Post by Suet Cardigan » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:39 am


Guest_73eaf8de

Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#464

Post by Guest_73eaf8de » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:36 am

Suet Cardigan wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:39 am
Epic stylen on libtards who h8 Drumpf by our post-post-ironic assassins :nin:

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#465

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:39 am

Guest_73eaf8de wrote:
Suet Cardigan wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:39 am
Epic stylen on libtards who h8 Drumpf by our post-post-ironic assassins :nin:
Those tight white shorts wouldn't last long against a bunch of gay halal muzzie fags, desperate to claim his ass for allah. His smooth Anglo ass. Tight, white, and buttery. For their pedo gay god. His taut, firm, muscular ass with side dimples calling them onwards, "come and have a go, you gay muzzie homos" it would cry, as it got pounded by a bearded Iranian with a chest like a Morrocan rug and shoulders like cannonballs.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#466

Post by katamari Damassi » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:46 am

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Guest_73eaf8de wrote:
Suet Cardigan wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:39 am
Epic stylen on libtards who h8 Drumpf by our post-post-ironic assassins :nin:
Those tight white shorts wouldn't last long against a bunch of gay halal muzzie fags, desperate to claim his ass for allah. His smooth Anglo ass. Tight, white, and buttery. For their pedo gay god. His taut, firm, muscular ass with side dimples calling them onwards, "come and have a go, you gay muzzie homos" it would cry, as it got pounded by a bearded Iranian with a chest like a Morrocan rug and shoulders like cannonballs.
C'mon H20. I'm at work. Don't turn me on like that.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#467

Post by Shatterface » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:19 am

Len McCluskey is taking a battering in Twitter for being reasonable about gender:



There definitely seems to be a schism emerging between the academic left on one side and people who work for a living on the other.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/l ... ebatehttps

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#468

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:28 am

The second link has 'https' on the end.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/l ... er-debate/

seems to work, but is prompting for registration.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#469

Post by comhcinc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:31 am

We need more women.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#470

Post by Kirbmarc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:31 am

Serious Political Talk Here on The Slymepit.

The Most Accurate Political Compass Ever:

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#471

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:34 am

katamari Damassi wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: Those tight white shorts wouldn't last long against a bunch of gay halal muzzie fags, desperate to claim his ass for allah. His smooth Anglo ass. Tight, white, and buttery. For their pedo gay god. His taut, firm, muscular ass with side dimples calling them onwards, "come and have a go, you gay muzzie homos" it would cry, as it got pounded by a bearded Iranian with a chest like a Morrocan rug and shoulders like cannonballs.
C'mon H20. I'm at work. Don't turn me on like that.
https://i.imgur.com/RRGZ6pT.png

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#472

Post by Shatterface » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:41 am

That Spectator article by James Kirkup:
Labour and Tories finally see the truth about the gender debate

You might not have noticed that yesterday the Government announced possible changes to the Gender Recognition Act. That’s what ministers wanted: the announcement was carefully made late in the day and was partly obscured by an earlier promise to ban “conversion therapy” that tries to stop gay people being gay.

Why did the Government bury its transgender announcement? The approach was very different last autumn when the Prime Minister herself fronted a prominent media drive which Tory spinners said showed that the Conservatives were inclining towards a system of “self-identified” gender. Yesterday, by contrast, ministers released a deliberately neutral set of consultation questions and kicked decisions on reform into early 2019 by saying the consultation will be open until late October. Conservatives who once rushed to embrace the reforms sought by some transgender lobbying groups are now — behind all their nice words — moving much more cautiously.

So what changed between the autumn of 2017 and this week? There are two factors, one public, one largely private. The public change was brought about by women. Quite a lot of them worry about a system that allows male-born people to take on the legal status of women (transwomen) and thus access spaces and services that the law reserves for women. Especially when some of those transwomen retain male genitalia.

For all that some people suggest it’s somehow prurient or distasteful to talk about penises in this debate, there is, as Nick Robinson put it in some excellent interviews on the Today Programme yesterday, no way to avoid this. The simple fact is that people with penises, whatever word we use to describe those people, are biologically different to people without penises, and that difference matters to many women in a way that cannot be dismissed as bigotry. It is, again, a simple fact that people with penises have the potential to commit certain acts of violence and abuse against others. That fact is the reason Parliament and society accept the concept of single-sex spaces: women have a right to keep someone with a penis out of those spaces.

Upholding that legal right is possibly the founding principle of several women’s groups that have sprung up since the Government first announced its intent to make it easier for people to change their legal gender. Unlike the charities that lobby for transgender rights, the women’s groups — Woman’s Place UK, Fair Play for Women and ManFriday — have no corporate or public sector funding, and not much money at all. They are genuine grassroots political organisations that have sprung up from a concerned public. Those groups have made a difference. Back in the autumn, that point about female-only spaces was either often ignored or dismissed in political debate. Women talking about penises were ridiculed as bigoted cranks, accused of transphobic misinformation. Their meetings were subjected to violent protests (one person has been convicted of assault) and a bomb threat, threats that went shamefully unremarked on by most politicians.

Nevertheless, the women persisted: the meetings continued; the campaigns went on; and it made a difference.

You might not have noticed that yesterday the Government announced possible changes to the Gender Recognition Act. That’s what ministers wanted: the announcement was carefully made late in the day and was partly obscured by an earlier promise to ban “conversion therapy” that tries to stop gay people being gay.

Why did the Government bury its transgender announcement? The approach was very different last autumn when the Prime Minister herself fronted a prominent media drive which Tory spinners said showed that the Conservatives were inclining towards a system of “self-identified” gender. Yesterday, by contrast, ministers released a deliberately neutral set of consultation questions and kicked decisions on reform into early 2019 by saying the consultation will be open until late October. Conservatives who once rushed to embrace the reforms sought by some transgender lobbying groups are now — behind all their nice words — moving much more cautiously.

So what changed between the autumn of 2017 and this week? There are two factors, one public, one largely private. The public change was brought about by women. Quite a lot of them worry about a system that allows male-born people to take on the legal status of women (transwomen) and thus access spaces and services that the law reserves for women. Especially when some of those transwomen retain male genitalia.

For all that some people suggest it’s somehow prurient or distasteful to talk about penises in this debate, there is, as Nick Robinson put it in some excellent interviews on the Today Programme yesterday, no way to avoid this. The simple fact is that people with penises, whatever word we use to describe those people, are biologically different to people without penises, and that difference matters to many women in a way that cannot be dismissed as bigotry. It is, again, a simple fact that people with penises have the potential to commit certain acts of violence and abuse against others. That fact is the reason Parliament and society accept the concept of single-sex spaces: women have a right to keep someone with a penis out of those spaces.

Upholding that legal right is possibly the founding principle of several women’s groups that have sprung up since the Government first announced its intent to make it easier for people to change their legal gender. Unlike the charities that lobby for transgender rights, the women’s groups — Woman’s Place UK, Fair Play for Women and ManFriday — have no corporate or public sector funding, and not much money at all. They are genuine grassroots political organisations that have sprung up from a concerned public. Those groups have made a difference. Back in the autumn, that point about female-only spaces was either often ignored or dismissed in political debate. Women talking about penises were ridiculed as bigoted cranks, accused of transphobic misinformation. Their meetings were subjected to violent protests (one person has been convicted of assault) and a bomb threat, threats that went shamefully unremarked on by most politicians. Nevertheless, the women persisted: the meetings continued; the campaigns went on; and it made a difference.

Yesterday on the Today programme, Penny Mordaunt, equalities Minister, didn’t dismiss those women as cranks. She said this:

“Those women who are raising those concerns, those are legitimate concerns that we need to address…We will listen to everyone’s voice in this consultation.”

Why has the Government decided to say it will listen to grassroots feminists? That brings me to the less public bit of the story. Some people have been listening to the women’s groups, even if they don’t say so publicly. They include quite a lot of MPs, of all parties. The steady flow of letters and emails from constituents has helped some see that quite a few voters are unhappy about this. (This poll from Pink News underlines that point: 18 per cent of all voters, and 13 per cent of Tories, support allowing people to change their legal gender without medical approval.) That sort of feeling does tell on politicians, even if many aren’t keen to say so publicly, for fear of being accused, like those women’s groups, of nasty transphobia.

(If you doubt the extent of that chilling effect, consider that bomb threat I mentioned. It was made against a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Hastings, in Amber Rudd’s ultra-marginal seat. Even though it would only take a few hundred angry women to switch votes to topple her, Rudd hasn’t yet responded to campaigners’ requests to speak about what the police call a “serious” incident. I find it hard to think of other circumstance in which a former Home Secretary would stay silent about a bomb threat made against a public meeting in their constituency.)

But whether they go public or not, MPs are aware that there are two sides to the gender debate, both equally valid, both worth listening to, and both capable of influencing significant numbers of voters. That message has, slowly, worked its way through the Conservative Party which, never forget, has no Commons majority: it doesn’t take many Tory MPs to cause real trouble for ministers. And in any case, several ministers are extremely well aware of the complexity of the trans debate. Hence the newfound caution in Government circles on trans issues.

This is not just a story about the Tories, however. One of the fascinating things about this issue is that it reveals dividing lines that have almost nothing to do with Right-Left or partisan alignments: there are ardent trans-rights advocates in all parties, and there are politicians and members in all parties who share the concerns of those women’s groups.

Labour is, nominally, committed to self-identification of gender, but just like the Tories, the party is in fact deeply divided over the issue and quite a lot of MPs, including prominent frontbenchers, think the issue is more complex (and potentially vote-losing) than the party’s current policies suggests. MPs say a recent meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party saw many Labour women airing doubts.

In the Labour movement, the dividing line over gender politics sometimes maps onto a split between the new generation of activists in Momentum and the longer-standing groups in, and allied to, the trade unions. Lots of Labour women (and men) sceptical of self-identification of gender have links to the trade union movement which still funds the party, underpins Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, and exercises real influence in Labour affairs.

In that context, I think a letter in today’s Morning Star is worth reading closely. It describes “systematic attempts to shut down meetings organised by women at which they can discuss potential legislative changes and the impact these may have on any sex-based rights already enshrined in law.”

Such incidents “draw the whole of our progressive movement into disrepute,” the letter says, adding:

“Some trans rights activists even continue to justify the use of violence, meaning that many women are simply too frightened to attend meetings that are both public and lawful in order that they may discuss their own rights.
Other women, including ordinary women concerned for their rights, as well as those active within the trade union movement and other political campaigns, are also now anxious and fearful that they will be subjected to such attacks when engaging in any political activity, meetings, or protests.
We are sure that, whatever your view regarding the issues around the Gender Recognition Act, you will agree that it is unacceptable for women to be made scared to engage in political life.”
Now, I’m a dedicated centrist and I happen to agree with every word of that letter. I know paid-up Tories who would too.

But the contents of that letter are not the story here. The story is in the signatories, who include Len McCluskey of the Unite union, as well as several other senior trade unionists. (Lindsey German, a founder of Stop the War and a close friend of Jeremy Corbyn is there too; Andrew Murray, another very senior Corbynista signed a similar letter earlier this year. In short, a very significant and, in Labour terms, powerful group of unionists and activists has raised some quite serious concerns about the violent intimidation of women in the gender debate.

In a previous job as a political reporter, I’d probably have summarised that letter something like this:

Transgender activists who use threats of violence to frighten feminist critics are bringing the Labour movement into disrepute, Britain’s top trade union leader has said. Len McCluskey of the Unite union has joined several other close allies of Jeremy Corbyn to warn that “trans rights activists” using threats and intimidation have left many women “too frightened” to engage in political debate.
That strikes me as quite a big deal, and something that others in politics should reflect on. I know that a lot of people in politics (and journalism) veer away from public involvement in this debate, and I think some of the reasons for that are understandable.

But consider these two facts that have come to light this week: the Conservative minister for equalities has said that women have “legitimate concerns” about transgender laws that must be heard and answered; the head of the country’s biggest trade union has said that women who raise those concerns face a “systematic” attempt to scare them into silence.

This isn’t a niche issue, a sideline interest for a few activists and obsessives. This is about how politics works. It’s time for the people who stay quiet to start talking.

comhcinc
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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#473

Post by comhcinc » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:43 am

Fuck did Kirbmarc write that?

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#474

Post by Shatterface » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: Serious Political Talk Here on The Slymepit.

The Most Accurate Political Compass Ever:
It needs a third dimension so Damion can look down on everyone else.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#475

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:13 pm

comhcinc wrote: Fuck did Kirbmarc write that?
No - he copied it from you.

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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#476

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:15 pm



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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#478

Post by screwtape » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:32 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
screwtape wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:12 pm
Today’s hashtag cause.

https.://twitter.com/celtic_maiden/status/1014256993576595456?s=21
"Remember Europe"? Silly me, I always thought Russia was in Asia.
The Urals are the standard divide.
Divide your standards where you will, laddie.
iu.gif
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The vast majority of Russia lies to the east of the Urals, as does Ekaterinburg, a name which might or might not mean something to a student of history. Most of Russia is inarguably not Europe. Russia is 70% of the area of Asia. Nothing wrong with that; it's just the way it is.


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Re: Fuck off, Jamie!

#480

Post by MarcusAu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:44 pm

I've heard of TransSiberian, so maybe Russia is TransEuropean too.

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