Periodic Table of Swearing

[rayshul]

On the other hand you couldn't make me stay home to look after a kid if you paid me...

Me too. I would be certifiably insane before the first day was finished.

Me, if I had to push papers, dig ditches, and deal with office politics for a living, I'd go crazy. (and ftr, I already tried those things). I rather enjoy being a full time parent. It's very fulfilling for me. I am also a man.

While I'm here and on this topic I just add that a man who stays home and a wife that works is very often a great situation. Firstly, as a man, I can do things like mow the lawn, change the oil in the car, paint the interior rooms, etc, in addition to the standard house keeping and tending to children. I am also very cheap. I don't buy 100 pairs of shoes or spend thousands of dollars on cosmetics. I don't buy fancy clothes, etc. For my wife, since she's a woman, she's not really expected to stay at work late, or go in early. She's not expected to tackle physical or dangerous jobs. She also has the benefit of sort of being the last person her company would want to fire because of sexism and ageism concerns.

Just figured I say something more than, "but wait! what about me!?!?!". And a few posters sort of seemed interesed in the stay at home dad thing.

Well, you're a better class of house-husband than my husband, who I keep catching buying clothes and shoes and who's never painted a room in his life. He's lost his credit card privileges a few times. -.-

There seems to be a huge divide between women that I know over the women-with-house-husbands/women-who-don't-want-children, who confide that they think men are probably better suited for raising kids, and women-who-don't-have-house-husbands, who are surprised by the idea that a heck of a lot of men raise kids and actually seem to do quite well at it. I'm probably of the mind that men are better at it - but that's just my opinion, I'm sure it's very dependent on the couple. And I'm sure there's class issues in there as well.

[Tigzy]

Not quite sure what you think would qualify as issuing “a personal threat”. She said that TF “began threatening to publish the confidential contents of FTB’s private listserv”. Which certainly looks to me like it would be consistent with the definition:

A threat is an act of coercion wherein an act is proposed to elicit a negative response. It is a communicated intent to inflict harm or loss on another person.

I'd say that issuing a personal threat would involve Tf00t expressing his desire to release the evidence with the intent of doing Natalie Reed some harm, rather than releasing the evidence in order to back up his point. Sometimes, intent is indeed magic. Also, Tf00t may not have been aware that Natalie may have found this threatening until after she stated the possible harm that might come of what she saw as a potential invasion of her privacy:

This led to something really creepy and scary when Thunderf00t began threatening to publish the confidential contents of FTB’s private listserv, to “prove” that I’d been “lying” about his behaviour. When I reminded him of the ethical problems with this, and hinted at the real danger it poses to me, he laughed and suggested that his treatment by PZ and FTB as a whole justified any actions he wanted to take.

She states here that she found it threatening even before informing Tf00t of precisely how it might be threatening to her.

[Steersman]

Horace:

If you believe what they write about half of the women who regularly post on Pharyngula were raped, several by different men at different times. I always wrote this off as something that they are saying for dramatic effect, but I am not an expert on the subject.

I'm no expert either, and there's almost no way to know the truth. It's possible that the percentages are higher in some internet communities, but I remain skeptical.

All this drama ... maybe I can write a book. I think the title will be A Million Little PeeZus.

:-) Soon to be touted by Oprah Herself as a Book of the Month.... and to be subsequently proven to be based on fictions of one sort or another ....

[Badger3k]

Laden seemed to have been addressed, too, by Natalie:

It even eventually became to seem unsurprising amongst my own immediate colleagues (or former colleagues)… “men are testosterone-damaged women...

Wait - I'm confused. I've really never heard of this Natalie Reed until a short time ago, but in that "disgusting" blog post, she says she is a transsexual woman. Does that mean that she started off as one of those brain-damaged females, or that she wants to be one of those brain-damaged females? I'm confused. No, seriously, isn't she insulting herself in one way or another (or maybe insulting what she was?)? Or is she saying that what the person who said that now says was a joke was wrong, and those who were less intelligent and tried to justify it later were correct?
:(

She's not agreeing with BinLaden's comment, she's criticizing it as "privileged, entitled myopia".

There are some attempts like that in Natalie's post to call out the polarization on all sides, ("Various networks and personalities within this blogosphere are repeatedly cast in the roles of heroes and villains"), but in the end she seems to be painting one group firmly as the villains again:

Let them have The Movement. Let it be a club for entitled little white cis straight dudes [...] Let them sink, bit by bit, into self-congratulatory, insulated irrelevance, while the rest of us get on with actually trying to help make the world a bit less of a mess.

It would be interesting to hear how they plan to achieve progress without any contribution from those "entitled little white cis straight dudes" and all other people who prefer to dedicate themselves to scientific, objective issues over being a social justice warrior. Or are they, like creationists, happy to enjoy the fruits of an activity while blaming its practitioners for all manner of social ills?

She;s not agreeing with it? You could be right. I just tried to read her post on that (holy cow, way too long) and couldn't figure out where she stood on that point. I reread that paragraph several times and still can't make heads or tails on it.

As for her own sexist remarks...meh. She even admitted that perhaps her initial feelings on the whole thing were the result of her own wishful thinking, and I think she came into the whole "movement" thing with some strange ideas, but then I consider the whole "Movement" issue to be nonsensical anyway. I agree with Loftus that there are atheist (and skeptic) movements, with many different goals. Such organizations like that Secular group (the one that elected the Republican hack) - who the heck are they and what do they represent? I'd wager not a lot of my own views (I could be wrong, but really couldn't give two farts for them, so I'm not wasting my time to check). Some people want to form a Movement and lay claim to territory and power, as if they define everyone else, but that hasn't worked out too well since most of us who are freethinkers don't go into that herding bit (I hope. I sure have seen a lot of blowback from a more rational element to my mind). I can see this "Movement" going the way of all the other little extremist groups. But, I can also see them going the way of PETA and sanitizing their more unsavory aspects and deluding people into donating or supporting them.

Someone on Thunderf00ts post, in the comments, mentions all the people that Skepchicks have been trawling to get statements against harassment, as if that was some sign of correctness, when all it shows is that (a) political groups have to do good PR, and (b) the statement was one that pretty much anyone can get behind - it's not the topic, but the extent of the problem, methods of dealing with it, and the authoritarian tactics being used that are the real issue. Just like the "Dissent from Darwinism" thing.

As for Natalie. Sorry things worked out that way, but, don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Go back to dealing with the issues you really want to deal with, make yourself happy, forget the FftB Drama Llama's.

[Lsuoma]

Just been over to look at Thunderf00t's thread - that fucker has over 460 comments already!

[Tigzy]

Um...wonder what Tf00t is referring to here? https://twitter.com/thunderf00t/status/ ... 7194419200

'Conspiracy to defraud'?? That sounds...serious. Pretty, pretty serious.

[EveryMan]

Their bad behavior doesn't justify his.

Yeah but how bad was it, really? Nobody got hurt. The FftBullies just got more (gr)egg on their fat faces.

I'm beginning to suspect that tf00t is doing some hoggle-style trolling by baiting them in into increasingly bizarre displays of histrionics. I also find it intensely humorous how seriously these retards take themselves. Especially with their "TOP SEKRIT CONFUDENSHUL" communications.

Tf00t definitely has balls, that is for sure.

[EveryMan]

Um...wonder what Tf00t is referring to here? https://twitter.com/thunderf00t/status/ ... 7194419200

'Conspiracy to defraud'?? That sounds...serious. Pretty, pretty serious.

Oh dear. I was about to comment that if Tf00t was really clever he would have waited until he evidence of some serious malfeasance before blowing the whistle on these turds. Could be that's exactly what he did.

They have a history of trying to screw with people careers, so I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fucks with his.

[sacha]

Hey kids, long time lurker here.

I'd take any claims of "hacking" with a massive dose of sodium chloride given that these fucktards also think that pasting a fuck-ton of text into a comments box is a "Denial of Service" attack:

http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2011/07/holy_shit_1.html

That's JCW's blog! For fuck's sake, they are accusing Welch??! Bloody 'ell!

[Sulaco]

then I consider the whole "Movement" issue to be nonsensical anyway. I agree with Loftus that there are atheist (and skeptic) movements, with many different goals.

I have always considered it, the a/s movement, to be a node/network model. There is no uniform movement. Some nodes become popular and thrive, others don't catch on, others bloom and die, etc. With several layers of overlap between individual atheists and the nodes they subscribe to.

This of course frustrates the hell out of people who think they can dominate the "movement", be it baboon nonsense, Mooney's ideas, and anything else that someone has tried to promote and fail. Since at best you can dominate a few nodes, push too far and you end up decoupling yourself. It is a nice feedback mechanism to provide a check on concentrating power.

This sums it up nicely:

Night City was like a deranged experiment in social Darwinism, designed by a bored researcher who kept one thumb permanently on the fast-forward button. Stop hustling and you sank without a trace, but move a little too swiftly and you’d break the fragile surface tension of the black market; either way, you were gone

[sacha]

Hey kids, long time lurker here.

I'd take any claims of "hacking" with a massive dose of sodium chloride given that these fucktards also think that pasting a fuck-ton of text into a comments box is a "Denial of Service" attack:

http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2011/07/holy_shit_1.html

That's JCW's blog! For fuck's sake, they are accusing Welch??! Bloody 'ell!

Wait, I remember that now. Over a year ago. Not that it makes it any less fucked, but I thought it was recent.

[LMU]

Hey kids, long time lurker here.

I'd take any claims of "hacking" with a massive dose of sodium chloride given that these fucktards also think that pasting a fuck-ton of text into a comments box is a "Denial of Service" attack:

http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2011/07/holy_shit_1.html

That's JCW's blog! For fuck's sake, they are accusing Welch??! Bloody 'ell!

Sacha, I'm pretty sure that is old news. I thought about reminding people on the TF thread that the people accusing TF of "hacking" are the same people who think an overly long comment is a DoS attack, but I couldn't remember who had accused who (Greg and JCW, thanks AD!).

[rayshul]

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:01 pm

Does Tf00t say anywhere where he got the emails from? Is it possible that they put him on the list when he joined FTB and just failed to take him off again? Or that someone at FTB is forwarding him this stuff? No disrespect to Thunderf00t but he really doesn't seem like a hacker.

My thoughts too.

.... I actually suspect they've got a leak within their tight little crew that isn't Thunderf00t.

That might well be the case – and it might be amusing to suggest that, just to “mess with their minds” ....

But the information provided by the FT Blogger Lousy Canuck indicates or strongly suggests that TF had access to the FTB list server from July 1, about when he was first removed from it, up until about August 2 when he was finally and conclusively ejected.

Mmm. I've been in a similar position before (for an entirely different community) and the "other side" wrote many blogs about how I had hacked into their systems using various different methods and explaining how it could be done, everything from simple access to getting passwords to highly sophisticated security shit. Of course I hadn't done that all - in fact I'd been innundated with a barrage of emails from their "inner circle" detailing their actions from people who'd seriously lost the faith. I didn't mention that at all, though - it felt safer for me to not explain how I'd got the information - I didn't want others to get caught up in the shite.

I really wouldn't be surprised if someone was releasing this stuff. Because I can't see that every member of the FtB group - especially if they're not all on board with that kind of shit - are assholes.

ALSO - still horrified at their tactics of trying to fuck up people's jobs. Unbelievable.

[DownThunder]

Hey kids, long time lurker here.

I'd take any claims of "hacking" with a massive dose of sodium chloride given that these fucktards also think that pasting a fuck-ton of text into a comments box is a "Denial of Service" attack:

http://www.bynkii.com/archives/2011/07/holy_shit_1.html

That's JCW's blog! For fuck's sake, they are accusing Welch??! Bloody 'ell!

Wait, I remember that now. Over a year ago. Not that it makes it any less fucked, but I thought it was recent.

Yes it was a while back and we all had a good laff at the clown laden for that. Good times.

[LMU]

Ops I'm too slow. Nevermind me, sacha! :oops:

[sacha]

I don't know why you assume that. I would have put it like this:
Non-ideologues (actual skeptics) tend to think first and emote later (if at all).
Ideologues, such as the Fftb/skepchicks, tend to emote first and think later (if at all)

Uh, a lifetime of dealing with women? It's also know that sex hormones affect behavior in this regard.

I'll also say education is a huge factor in this, as I've found that women with advanced degrees (in the hard or soft sciences) tend to think first. Interesting to note the SkepChicks are universally poorly educated and grad students like Abbie want nothing to do with them.

Have you only had uneducated women around you all your life, so that's why you think it's all women are this and all men are that? And, if it's education we're talking about, why do you say it's women? The hormone thing makes barely a difference, unless you have heard of something new, proving (not guessing or assuming) that female hormones (at the levels ordinarily found in a woman) make emotions overrule logical thinking, and that it doesn't happen at the levels of female hormones found in men (each sex has some of the other sex's hormones).

Holy fuck, you have Nectar and I DEFENDING women with your idiocy! "A lifetime of dealing with women"?? Clearly not women with a brain.
"Men like taking things apart" "Women like experiencing/knowing" FUCK! If you had just clearly stated MANY men like to do that, MANY women like that. YOU ARE A BLOODY IMBECILE.

You should just go back to making "dumb blond sacha" jokes, stick with the easy stuff, cowboy.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your comment...

[sacha]

Ops I'm too slow. Nevermind me, sacha! :oops:

not to worry, luv. I should have looked at the date before commenting.

[sacha]

sorry, this was Nectar:

Have you only had uneducated women around you all your life, so that's why you think it's all women are this and all men are that? And, if it's education we're talking about, why do you say it's women? The hormone thing makes barely a difference, unless you have heard of something new, proving (not guessing or assuming) that female hormones (at the levels ordinarily found in a woman) make emotions overrule logical thinking, and that it doesn't happen at the levels of female hormones found in men (each sex has some of the other sex's hormones).

quote fail

[sacha]

Hmmm. Legally, it looks as if Tf00t could be in the clear, as regards 'hacking':

Who doubted it? He would have to be totally unethical and a total moron to "hack" anything FTB related. To do it and then publicly admit it... There's no word for that kind of stupid. It would be... 'baboon-like'

Now Jen McLightweight duly wades in... echoing the meme that Tf00t actually threatened Natalie Reed:

That will indeed be/probably already is the meme. The fact that it's damned lie (and provably so) will not stop the FC 5/6/7 or the Baboons.

Once again I'm hoping that they'll cross the line into something actionable, or better yet criminal.

It's just a matter of time...

[sacha]

Everyman, your link proves shit. F00t did not break any security.

Whether or not he was "supposed" to have access to the email list is moot. If he was not supposed to have access, but Brayton and PeeZus in their general incompetence did not bar him from access, and if he then, hypothetically, reapplied to the list and was accepted, he is fully in the clear, applying to an email list is not breaking security.

John, he thinks integrated "medicine" is legitimate, don't waste your breath.

here you go, Cowboy: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?s=i ... d+medicine

[youtube]V0W7Jbc_Vhw[/youtube]

[CommanderTuvok]

It would be interesting to hear how they plan to achieve progress without any contribution from those "entitled little white cis straight dudes" and all other people who prefer to dedicate themselves to scientific, objective issues over being a social justice warrior. Or are they, like creationists, happy to enjoy the fruits of an activity while blaming its practitioners for all manner of social ills?

One of the biggest flaws in the Baboon thinking is that "cis, white, straight dudes" are a significant problem in the community. They think that if they can get rid of some of those cis, white, straight people, then suddenly, millions of non-whites, females, gays, etc. will start appearing at conferences and whatnot and getting involved in the community. But this is just complete bullshit, and there is no evidence that the current "culture" and "makeup" of the a/s movement deters those who the Baboons are so desperate to appeal to.

The Baboons simply think that large numbers of women, non-whites, etc. are queing up to join the movement, but not until the cis, white, stright guys who currently "dominate" the movement, alter their raging sexist, misgoynist, racist, facist, etc. behaviour. /sarcasm. Again, complete bullshit, because I reckon the people who dominate the a/s movement are far more likely to be supportive of feminism and equality, combative of racism and prejudice, etc. than many other areas of society. The odd "incident" highlighted by the Baboons does not change this view.

[EveryMan]

Holy fuck, you have Nectar and I DEFENDING women with your idiocy! "A lifetime of dealing with women"?? Clearly not women with a brain.
"Men like taking things apart" "Women like experiencing/knowing" FUCK! If you had just clearly stated MANY men like to do that, MANY women like that. YOU ARE A BLOODY IMBECILE.

You should just go back to making "dumb blond sacha" jokes, stick with the easy stuff, cowboy.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your comment...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you aware that women are considered more "emotionally intelligent" than men? Did you miss that part of my post?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-golem ... 11591.html

I was under the impression that this was common knowledge.

My observation was that poorly-educated women might have a hard time differentiating their feelings from reality; hence the behavior of the skepchicks. Are you denying this?

Also, you need to hit "Preview" and check your post for errors first.

[EveryMan]

John, he thinks integrated "medicine" is legitimate, don't waste your breath.

So does UCSF, which is one of the top-ranked medical research institutions in the world.

See: http://www.osher.ucsf.edu/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k0rNSX7uhUQ/T ... kes_3.jpeg

[CommanderTuvok]

From WWJTD

You can’t disagree with freethoughtblogs, because freethoughtblogs doesn’t have a position. It’s not an entity under a banner of agreement, it’s a group of people who write on the same network. Atheism aside, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a subject on which we all align.

I've seen this argument before, and it is one that many religions use (particulary Christians and Muslims) in an attempt to stave off criticism and ridicule. When people attack FreeThoughtBlogs (usually named here as FfTB, FC5, the Baboons, etc. to make the distinction clear) it is obvious to most observers that the attack is against the core bloggers of PZ, Greta, Ophelia, JT, Black Svan, and formerly Greg Laden. Essentially, those who have promoted the schism since elevatorgate. Moaning about the use of the term FTB, etc. is perhaps unfortunate to those FreeThoughtBloggers not considered "Baboons" (ie. Aron Ra), but it DOES NOT give JT and company a get-out-of-jail free card in terms of the valid criticisms those named bloggers face.

[Steersman]

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:06 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:01 pm

Does Tf00t say anywhere where he got the emails from? Is it possible that they put him on the list when he joined FTB and just failed to take him off again? Or that someone at FTB is forwarding him this stuff? No disrespect to Thunderf00t but he really doesn't seem like a hacker.

My thoughts too. .... I actually suspect they've got a leak within their tight little crew that isn't Thunderf00t.

That might well be the case – and it might be amusing to suggest that, just to “mess with their minds” ....

But the information provided by the FT Blogger Lousy Canuck indicates or strongly suggests that TF had access to the FTB list server from July 1, about when he was first removed from it, up until about August 2 when he was finally and conclusively ejected.

Mmm. I've been in a similar position before ... I really wouldn't be surprised if someone was releasing this stuff. Because I can't see that every member of the FtB group - especially if they're not all on board with that kind of shit - are assholes.

Not an implausible argument then; definitely not a “logical impossibility”: if it has happened once then it could certainly have happened again. Though it is rather difficult assessing those probabilities – sort of like, I think, the probabilities for an anthropomorphic god given all of the others that have supposedly existed throughout history ....

ALSO - still horrified at their tactics of trying to fuck up people's jobs. Unbelievable.

It is indeed. I haven’t followed much of what supposedly happened with Abbie and this recent case with, I think, the CFI official here in Canada, but one has to wonder about the instigators. Was it some loose cannon acting on their own or one who misread some signals from their “Glorious Leader”? Sort of like what happened with Thomas Becket: "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" Or the “Glorious Leader”, Him or Her Self going off the rails?

[rayshul]

From WWJTD

You can’t disagree with freethoughtblogs, because freethoughtblogs doesn’t have a position. It’s not an entity under a banner of agreement, it’s a group of people who write on the same network. Atheism aside, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a subject on which we all align.

I've seen this argument before, and it is one that many religions use (particulary Christians and Muslims) in an attempt to stave off criticism and ridicule. When people attack FreeThoughtBlogs (usually named here as FfTB, FC5, the Baboons, etc. to make the distinction clear) it is obvious to most observers that the attack is against the core bloggers of PZ, Greta, Ophelia, JT, Black Svan, and formerly Greg Laden. Essentially, those who have promoted the schism since elevatorgate. Moaning about the use of the term FTB, etc. is perhaps unfortunate to those FreeThoughtBloggers not considered "Baboons" (ie. Aron Ra), but it DOES NOT give JT and company a get-out-of-jail free card in terms of the valid criticisms those named bloggers face.

Here's a thing. If this shit is going on in the back channel and visible to all the bloggers of FTB... does this mean they're seeing the FtB people debating over whether or not to attack people to get them fired?

[CommanderTuvok]

Also from WWJTD:

You’re joking, right? Thunderf00t wasn’t banned for disagreeing. He was removed from the FTB group because they didn’t want him there anymore, due to piss-poor arguments that just made the rest of the group look bad, among other things. Stop misrepresenting the facts to make TF look like some kind of martyr.

Somebody STILL trying to keep up the pretence that TF was booted for "bad writing". I also like the bit about "poor arguments". Well, there are quite a few Baboons who should be given the boot in that respect.

[Dilurk]

Everyman, your link proves shit. F00t did not break any security.

Whether or not he was "supposed" to have access to the email list is moot. If he was not supposed to have access, but Brayton and PeeZus in their general incompetence did not bar him from access, and if he then, hypothetically, reapplied to the list and was accepted, he is fully in the clear, applying to an email list is not breaking security.

The way I see it, unless FTB sent him an official letter/e-mail stating he had been banned from the mailing list what TFoot did was not illegal but was certainly unethical. I'm sure it was good for the Lulz but clearly not a cracker job, after all, he had been invited until the administrator took care to actually ban that address from subscribing. It appears their mailman admin is an incompetent.

[real horrorshow]

I'm beginning to suspect that tf00t is doing some hoggle-style trolling by baiting them in into increasingly bizarre displays of histrionics. I also find it intensely humorous how seriously these retards take themselves. Especially with their "TOP SEKRIT CONFUDENSHUL" communications.

It reminds me of the 'coded messages' on PeeZus blog last week. It's like Dumb and Dumber. People below nerds in the social pecking order, because nerds at least have technical know-how. So stupid they can't even grasp how stupid they are.

E-mail is a postcard. Between sender and recipient any number of people can look at it. And looking at it is all it takes to read it. So, if you want confidentiality, you encrypt it. Google it. It's freeware.

What am I saying? These mooks can't even be bothered to check if they've properly kicked a guy from their server. Even when they've gone out of their way to publicly alienate him! Why wouldn't I expect them to blithely post who-knows-what defamatory and incriminating crap in the clear?

Forget any legal or ethical considerations. Just use basic common-sense. Do you want people outside your Super Secret Club to read your messages? No? Then don't post them on the clubhouse door!

[CommanderTuvok]

Here's a thing. If this shit is going on in the back channel and visible to all the bloggers of FTB... does this mean they're seeing the FtB people debating over whether or not to attack people to get them fired?

I mentioned something similar a couple of hours ago. There are obviously some bloggers at FfTB, like Aron Ra, for example, who would have access to what was said in the backchannel. What would his reaction be to the Baboon's attempt to mess around with someone's employment? I imagine he would be very uncomfortable with that. That's why I mentioned whether there is a backchannel "within" the backchannel, where the more serious scheming is done.

BTW, with what I have learnt about how the backchannel operates, Paula Kirby's use of 'stazi' becomes more and more appropriate.

[windy]

She;s not agreeing with it? You could be right. I just tried to read her post on that (holy cow, way too long) and couldn't figure out where she stood on that point. I reread that paragraph several times and still can't make heads or tails on it.

It seems pretty clear that she lists comments from current and former FtB:ers that she considers insensitive against trans people (like the one from Laden, John Loftus calling her a "diversity hire", Daniel Fincke on the word 'stupid' being as bad as 'tranny') Then she says, this makes her understand the perspective of people who consider atheism to be associated with racism. Bit of a logical leap there, but otherwise understandable.

As for her own sexist remarks...meh. She even admitted that perhaps her initial feelings on the whole thing were the result of her own wishful thinking, and I think she came into the whole "movement" thing with some strange ideas, but then I consider the whole "Movement" issue to be nonsensical anyway.

I wasn't criticizing sexism, but the recent trend to dismiss "scientific, objective issues" as secondary to "social justice". That's dumb and short-sighted whether there is one Movement or several.

[rayshul]

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:06 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:01 pm

Does Tf00t say anywhere where he got the emails from? Is it possible that they put him on the list when he joined FTB and just failed to take him off again? Or that someone at FTB is forwarding him this stuff? No disrespect to Thunderf00t but he really doesn't seem like a hacker.

My thoughts too. .... I actually suspect they've got a leak within their tight little crew that isn't Thunderf00t.

That might well be the case – and it might be amusing to suggest that, just to “mess with their minds” ....

But the information provided by the FT Blogger Lousy Canuck indicates or strongly suggests that TF had access to the FTB list server from July 1, about when he was first removed from it, up until about August 2 when he was finally and conclusively ejected.

Mmm. I've been in a similar position before ... I really wouldn't be surprised if someone was releasing this stuff. Because I can't see that every member of the FtB group - especially if they're not all on board with that kind of shit - are assholes.

Not an implausible argument then; definitely not a “logical impossibility”: if it has happened once then it could certainly have happened again. Though it is rather difficult assessing those probabilities – sort of like, I think, the probabilities for an anthropomorphic god given all of the others that have supposedly existed throughout history ....

I'm happy to be corrected but I think the only way we'll find out is if Thunderf00t says so. My thoughts are because what he's done there and the way he's written about it is exactly how I did. It's the wording of his post and his lack of details in important places. Note he says that he knows they're going nuts about it in the background, but with no explanation of how (does he secretly crawl into their mailing list every day?). And it's also interesting that it's Payton (who's been completely unrelated from the whole FtB mess) that kicks this off too... it's not something related to the Thunderf00t mess. I'm going to bet someone told him.

I think it's far, far more probable that someone in the FtB clique has a sense of right and wrong than Thunderf00t tried to crack into a mailing list full of assholes he doesn't like anyway. I can't see him giving a fuck what they say behind his back at this stage (especially as they're so good at saying it to his face)... you really don't need to go hunting for material for their assholery. I can't see a reason for Thunderf00t to piss about on a mailing list he'd get into trouble for... but I *can* see a reason for someone to send him the information to warn Payton.

[Patrick]

Their bad behavior doesn't justify his.

Yeah but how bad was it, really? Nobody got hurt. The FftBullies just got more (gr)egg on their fat faces.

Morally, Thunderf00t is in the wrong for accessing email that he knew the senders and recipients did not want him to read. Regardless of actual harm, this is a question of character.

Politically, he had the high ground in this soap opera. With this action he has hopped down in the mud with the FC5(6). His credibility, particularly on this topic, will suffer as a result.

[rayshul]

If they invited Thunderf00t to that same channel, I doubt there's a backchannel within the backchannel - any uberscheming would be done my private emails, I expect. Which would suggest Aron Ra and others have access to this shit.

I don't know, I don't read the FtB blogs, but do you think ALL of them would be comfortable with that kind of talk about screwing Payton?

[Patrick]

Note he says that he knows they're going nuts about it in the background, but with no explanation of how (does he secretly crawl into their mailing list every day?).

The explanation provided by the Lazy Canuck suggests that he was registered on the mailing list until August 2nd.

[Steersman]

Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:40 pm

Wait - I'm confused. I've really never heard of this Natalie Reed until a short time ago, but in that "disgusting" blog post, she says she is a transsexual woman. Does that mean that she started off as one of those brain-damaged females, or that she wants to be one of those brain-damaged females? I'm confused.

Likewise with being confused. But on her blog she says of herself:

Natalie Reed is a magical young woman .... She was born with a Y chromosome but totally kicked its ass.

So presumably then she started off as a “brain-damaged female” and is now trying to repair that damage. Although, unless gene replacement therapy has advanced substantially since I last looked, I would say that every last cell in her body still has a Y chromosome [except maybe red blood cells as they lack a cell nucleus, according to Wikipedia]. ...

Look at Caster Semenya who was on hold under suspicion of being male due to higher-than normal testosterone levels. I wonder if she would be considered a brain-damaged female due to testosterone? Her case (and others) raise some issues, but I think most of this "binary gender" and "xis/xer" is BS. Humans have two sexes and there is apparently a continuum in some regards. Just make an arbitrary line, like we do with other things, and let it go. It shouldn't be a big thing (although people continue to make it one). ....

Interesting – hadn’t realized some of the complexities of both the testing procedures and the biology:

While it would seem a simple case of checking for XX vs. XY chromosomes to determine whether an athlete is a woman or a man, it is not that simple. Fetuses start out as undifferentiated, and the Y chromosome turns on a variety of hormones that differentiate the baby as a male. Sometimes this does not occur, and people with two X chromosomes can develop hormonally as a male, and people with an X and a Y can develop hormonally as a female.

So while I tend to agree with you about the “binary gender being BS” and would have argued in favour of the chromosomes being the final determinant, it would seem to be not quite as straight-forward as that.

[Patrick]

Note he says that he knows they're going nuts about it in the background, but with no explanation of how (does he secretly crawl into their mailing list every day?).

The explanation provided by the Lazy Canuck suggests that he was registered on the mailing list until August 2nd.

Sorry, Lousy Canuck.

[Dilurk]

Note he says that he knows they're going nuts about it in the background, but with no explanation of how (does he secretly crawl into their mailing list every day?).

The explanation provided by the Lazy Canuck suggests that he was registered on the mailing list until August 2nd.

Sorry, Lousy Canuck.

Same diff.

[AndrewV69]

Holy fuck, you have Nectar and I DEFENDING women with your idiocy! "A lifetime of dealing with women"?? Clearly not women with a brain.
"Men like taking things apart" "Women like experiencing/knowing" FUCK! If you had just clearly stated MANY men like to do that, MANY women like that. YOU ARE A BLOODY IMBECILE.

You should just go back to making "dumb blond sacha" jokes, stick with the easy stuff, cowboy.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your comment...

Ahahaha!

Welp as the resident MRA misogynist "happy slymepitter" I am going to chip in and note that although I agree with the sentiment that "most" women are like this (emotional) and "most men are like that(logical), when I totalled up my IRL friends the women outnumbered the men 4:1.

Go figure.

I could say that most of the guys I know tend to do stupid shit, and that is why I avoid them.

Of course I am the guy when faced with the choice of using the door right beside me, or confronting mama bear, without thinking about it goes all emotional about defending turf on mama bear and intimidates her into retreating instead of doing the sensible thing and using the door.

*shrug* Of course I am still going to say that most women are emotional and most men are logical. Not budging on that at all. No way. No sirree Bob. Clearly I am a manly man doing manly man stuff teh emotional wimmenz just can not understand.

What was that about "dumb blonds" Shacha? Dinna worry, and move over, you gots company. :lol:

[Tigzy]

Holy shit, Jason Thibizebedee is a slimy little turd! I've just been looking at the blogpost where he revealed the email & IP addys of those commentators he had in moderation - http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... ion-queue/ - and I saw this (emphasis mine):

I will, however, answer one question by Phil: yes, I published email and IP info. On the right, in the Contact Me form, “I reserve the right to publish any contact, especially if it’s hateful or ridiculous”. The “email will not be published” on the comment field is telling you that it will not be added to your comment on the post itself, not that it will never be published under any circumstances.

God, I hope he was bullied when he was a kid.

[CommanderTuvok]

I don't know, I don't read the FtB blogs, but do you think ALL of them would be comfortable with that kind of talk about screwing Payton?

No chance. Which is why it increases the likelyhood of someone leaking info. Not all the bloggers at FTB share the insane philosophy that the Baboons share, so eyebrows should have been raised if this stuff was discussed in the backchannel.

This is why I keep wondering whether some FTBers are kept out of certain areas of the backchannel. Further, if they were discussing TF, they knew that Aron Ra and Cristina Rad are mates of his, and that opens the potential of more leaks. I'm sure it wouldn't be nice to see a friend being smeared by the Baboons behind closed doors...

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Everyman wrote:

sacha wrote:

John, he thinks integrated "medicine" is legitimate, don't waste your breath.


So does UCSF, which is one of the top-ranked medical research institutions in the world.

UCSF may be highly regarded but that doesn't mean the Osher Center is. Just goes to show that $37 million bucks is more important to UCSF admin than their integrity. You can bet your life their alumni are spewing.

[rayshul]

Note he says that he knows they're going nuts about it in the background, but with no explanation of how (does he secretly crawl into their mailing list every day?).

The explanation provided by the Lazy Canuck suggests that he was registered on the mailing list until August 2nd.

Sorry, Lousy Canuck.

Hnnnggggarrrrr. I did see that and I *still* am very doubtful about the whole thing. But I do admit that what I'm saying about leaks is pure speculation but it has raised enough flags for me to think it's what happened.

Have noticed from twitter that Payton has had a luvverly chat with Brayton and now everything is fucking luvverly.

[Tigzy]

:lol: some levity at last! Ophelia's just posted a bit of Slymepit artwork: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ies-is-it/

Is there a link for the Santa Ophelia pic too? :lol:

[Guest]

It seems pretty clear that she lists comments from current and former FtB:ers that she considers insensitive against trans people (like the one from Laden, John Loftus calling her a "diversity hire", Daniel Fincke on the word 'stupid' being as bad as 'tranny') Then she says, this makes her understand the perspective of people who consider atheism to be associated with racism. Bit of a logical leap there, but otherwise understandable.

6 months ago Natalie was using the word "tranny" and arguing for her right to use it against others who found it offensive: http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed ... mment-1271

Wasn't it just last month that the free thought bullies ambushed some guy because he tweeted about how his son had named his Transformer "Tranny"?

[Horace AKA netnanny]

Tigzy,

I never post at lousy canuck after that incident. Typical of the Ftbers, they think that we are sexist/racist so anything that they do to us is justified.

[CommanderTuvok]

Is there a link for the Santa Ophelia pic too? :lol:

That gave me nightmares, let alone them.

[JAB]

Holy shit, Jason Thibizebedee is a slimy little turd! I've just been looking at the blogpost where he revealed the email & IP addys of those commentators he had in moderation - http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... ion-queue/ - and I saw this (emphasis mine):

I will, however, answer one question by Phil: yes, I published email and IP info. On the right, in the Contact Me form, “I reserve the right to publish any contact, especially if it’s hateful or ridiculous”. The “email will not be published” on the comment field is telling you that it will not be added to your comment on the post itself, not that it will never be published under any circumstances.

God, I hope he was bullied when he was a kid.

And now you know why I will never post on fftbs.

Re: TF's tweet about conspiracy to defraud... my guess is that there was a discussion in the back channel about how they could cook the books so that TF wouldn't get the full value from the ads that were on TF's ftb posts. Ed had already told him that the funds take while to come in and he'd get them eventually. When I heard that I still thought Ed was a decent enough guy, but from his comments revealed now we see him for the vindictive asshole he is/has become.

[EveryMan]

Morally, Thunderf00t is in the wrong for accessing email that he knew the senders and recipients did not want him to read. Regardless of actual harm, this is a question of character.

Politically, he had the high ground in this soap opera. With this action he has hopped down in the mud with the FC5(6). His credibility, particularly on this topic, will suffer as a result.

Maintaining the moral high ground doesn't work when dealing with terrorists.

I'm willing to give Tf00t the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And for the record, this is a mailing list he used to have access too. Not someones personal and private correspondence.

[JAB]

Holy fuck, you have Nectar and I DEFENDING women with your idiocy! "A lifetime of dealing with women"?? Clearly not women with a brain.
"Men like taking things apart" "Women like experiencing/knowing" FUCK! If you had just clearly stated MANY men like to do that, MANY women like that. YOU ARE A BLOODY IMBECILE.

You should just go back to making "dumb blond sacha" jokes, stick with the easy stuff, cowboy.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your comment...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you aware that women are considered more "emotionally intelligent" than men? Did you miss that part of my post?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-golem ... 11591.html

I was under the impression that this was common knowledge.

My observation was that poorly-educated women might have a hard time differentiating their feelings from reality; hence the behavior of the skepchicks. Are you denying this?

Also, you need to hit "Preview" and check your post for errors first.

I guess if you're linking to huffpo we know why you like alt med. Was that you earlier who also linked to the daily fail ? You may need to improve your reading list.

[Horace AKA netnanny]

So Sacha,

did Michin ever get invited back to dinner ? Liked the rant though.

[Dilurk]

Morally, Thunderf00t is in the wrong for accessing email that he knew the senders and recipients did not want him to read. Regardless of actual harm, this is a question of character.

Politically, he had the high ground in this soap opera. With this action he has hopped down in the mud with the FC5(6). His credibility, particularly on this topic, will suffer as a result.

Maintaining the moral high ground doesn't work when dealing with terrorists.

I'm willing to give Tf00t the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And for the record, this is a mailing list he used to have access too. Not someones personal and private correspondence.

As I said, he probably did it for the lulz more than anything. Finding the fftb horde about to backstab someone else would be a moral quandary he was not fully prepared for. He made a decision rightly or wrongly.

[Tigzy]

Is there a link for the Santa Ophelia pic too? :lol:

That gave me nightmares, let alone them.

Gah! As tempted as I am to post a link to the Sancta Ophelia image on the prune's page, being reminded by Jason Thibidildo of just how slimy the FfTB crew can get, I'm gonna have to chicken out of it I'm afraid. Still, here's hoping Ophelia manages to see it somehow; here's hoping that PZ sees the 'Time' image too, and gets huffy enough to post it on his own blog!

[The Pelagic Argosy]

:lol: some levity at last! Ophelia's just posted a bit of Slymepit artwork: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ies-is-it/

Is there a link for the Santa Ophelia pic too? :lol:

A satirical cartoon is now bullying, is it? Cthulhu's bollock hairs, do words no longer have any meaning at all? And what does this post even mean? It's devoid of content—unless, perhaps, one has been hanging on to the Ophelian Mother's every word and nuance. Oh yes, and speaking of hanging off Ophelia, the winnet-like Ace of Sevens' concern in regard to the aesthetic standards of graphic design in Photoshopped piss-takes is duly noted.

[sacha]

Everyman wrote:

sacha wrote:

John, he thinks integrated "medicine" is legitimate, don't waste your breath.


So does UCSF, which is one of the top-ranked medical research institutions in the world.

UCSF may be highly regarded but that doesn't mean the Osher Center is. Just goes to show that $37 million bucks is more important to UCSF admin than their integrity. You can bet your life their alumni are spewing.

it's all about the money. Harvard is beginning to embrace CAM too.

[Patrick]

Holy shit, Jason Thibizebedee is a slimy little turd! I've just been looking at the blogpost where he revealed the email & IP addys of those commentators he had in moderation - http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... ion-queue/ - and I saw this (emphasis mine):

I will, however, answer one question by Phil: yes, I published email and IP info. On the right, in the Contact Me form, “I reserve the right to publish any contact, especially if it’s hateful or ridiculous”. The “email will not be published” on the comment field is telling you that it will not be added to your comment on the post itself, not that it will never be published under any circumstances.

God, I hope he was bullied when he was a kid.

The only place I've had a pseudonym outed online has been the intelligent design creationism site Uncommon Descent. It's nice to know that FTB shares the same values.

[Patrick]

Morally, Thunderf00t is in the wrong for accessing email that he knew the senders and recipients did not want him to read. Regardless of actual harm, this is a question of character.

Politically, he had the high ground in this soap opera. With this action he has hopped down in the mud with the FC5(6). His credibility, particularly on this topic, will suffer as a result.

Maintaining the moral high ground doesn't work when dealing with terrorists.

I'm willing to give Tf00t the benefit of the doubt for the moment. And for the record, this is a mailing list he used to have access too. Not someones personal and private correspondence.

As I said, he probably did it for the lulz more than anything. Finding the fftb horde about to backstab someone else would be a moral quandary he was not fully prepared for. He made a decision rightly or wrongly.

Hmm, that has the scent of truth about it.

[EveryMan]

I guess if you're linking to huffpo we know why you like alt med. Was that you earlier who also linked to the daily fail ? You may need to improve your reading list.

I don't like "alt med". I link to pop-science summaries of scientific research as you probably don't have access to the same online journals I do. Not to mention that they are almost certainly above your reading level.

Daniel Goleman is well respected author and scientist and whether or not you agree the politics of the Huffington Post is irrelevant to a discussion of the integrity of his research.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Goleman

[The Pelagic Argosy]

Holy shit, Jason Thibizebedee is a slimy little turd! I've just been looking at the blogpost where he revealed the email & IP addys of those commentators he had in moderation - http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... ion-queue/ - and I saw this (emphasis mine):

I will, however, answer one question by Phil: yes, I published email and IP info. On the right, in the Contact Me form, “I reserve the right to publish any contact, especially if it’s hateful or ridiculous”. The “email will not be published” on the comment field is telling you that it will not be added to your comment on the post itself, not that it will never be published under any circumstances.

God, I hope he was bullied when he was a kid.

Jesus unicycling fuck, what a barstard. Can this people stoop any lower? The “email will not be published” on the comment field is telling you that it will not be published, you cunt.

[The Pelagic Argosy]

From WWJTD

You can’t disagree with freethoughtblogs, because freethoughtblogs doesn’t have a position. It’s not an entity under a banner of agreement, it’s a group of people who write on the same network. Atheism aside, you’ll be hard-pressed to find a subject on which we all align.

This may be true, but we are equally hard pressed to find a subject upon which they don't align. Thunderf00t broke that unspoken rule and look what happened to him. It's also "a group of people"—and do correct me if I'm wrong—the majority of whose blogs fuck all people can be arsed to read so their agreement or otherwise is neither here nor there.