There are 2018 genders... and a bitch ain't one

[free thoughtpolice]

Amazingly, I found myself agreeing with much of the stuff written about the incel crew on We Hunted the Mammoth. One comment was a bit over the top though, so Dr. Dirk Stacyslayer was motivated to respond, at least to see if it would make it through moderation.

Tosca wrote:
<blockquote>They are rabid dogs. There is no negotiating with rabid dogs. There is nothing to do but isolate and destroy them. Let’s get working on these websites, people.</blockquote>
As a megaChad, I find these incels and their hateful rhetoric disturbing. After all, I could easily be injured if one of these intensely frustrated dudes ran a vehicle into a crowd of Stacys that had gathered around me to bask in the glow of my manliness.
Having said that, Tosca's suggestion is a bit over the top, and sounds a great deal like someone that is promoting feminist terrorism.

[Brive1987]

For your Ponzi scheme to work, the immigrants need to either be younger than average, or more productive than average, compared to the native population. Most US immigrants work in low-skill, low-wage jobs. They & their dependents have the same age-distribution as the native population. By bringing them in, all you've done is expand the population but done nothing to adjust the age distribution, all while lowering the overall economic

Maybe you're right in terms of age distribution when it comes to the US. Immigrants to Europe seem to be definitely younger than the average age of the host country.

https://i.imgur.com/PaaJ10C.png

From here

Was there something special about 2017? Previous years look a little different:

Age_structure_of_immigrants_by_citizenship,_EU-28,_2016_(%).png


Or maybe it's cuz, once they get in, these young immigrants bring in their families, so it's a wash wrt age-distribution. You might want to look into the long-term trends.


Now, are there any hard numbers quantifying the exact costs of supporting the senior bubble, and the exact contribution to GNP or whatever that these immigrants are providing? Remember: for this scheme to work, the average immigrant must produce more in net economic terms than the average native. I can wait while you compile the data.

Mind the definition of “national” - yellow line.

“In 2016, the relative share of national immigrants, in other words immigrants with the citizenship of the EU Member State to which they were migrating, within the total number of immigrants was highest in Romania ... “

[KiwiInOz]

Really think more and more that Creativity's only mistake was making an account here a year too early.
See ya around, or not.

I know, I know. There are people who don't even think The Quartering is scum and horror of horrors, some people with some actual Right of centre opinions. I hope you find yourself a nice echo chamber and are very happy there. Really, I hope you do because that would add ever so slightly to the sum total of human happiness.

And horror of horrors, another option is to be the change you want to see. That is, write some stuff on the Pit that a) argues against a position posed by someone else (even if they have become repetitive and boring), or b) is something completely different and interesting and moves the conversation in another direction.

[BoxNDox]

This has very little to do with usual pit topics, but it's a real tragicomedy, I think you might enjoy it. It's very well done. (via hackernews)



I've never owned an Apple and always been jealous of folks who can pay $2K+ for a Macbook, or $600+ for a phone.... So what this guy describes really is shocking to me.

Meh. A big part of this is the keyhole perspective you develop when you work in support. Simply put, people don't bring their stuff in when its working fine, so all you see are the problems.

In fact he neglected to mention what IME was most unreliable Apple product ever: The original Airport Base Station. The original units were built with a tantalum capacitor in the power supply that was *absolutely* underrated, and the failure rate - based on personal experience with dozens of units, topped 90%. Replacing the capacitor was a major PITA too - we eventually developed a four-hand technique in our office with two soldering irons that worked pretty well. (And this was at a point when there really was no viable alternative.)

All of these issues exist, and a few actually affected a not-insignificant percentage of the machines of that type out there. But most don't.

There's a reason why Consumer Reports and others give Apple the highest marks for reliability out of all the laptop brands, and I don't think it's because everyone that buys Apple is a fanboi willing to overlook major failures.

This also misses out on the real problem, which is that predictive models for when things are going to fail are now good enough that manufacturers can basically decide when they want the thing to die, and optimize costs within that constraint. This, coupled with the fact that with every iteration these machines get harder to open up and fix, is creating a situation where the manufacturers own us in a really unpleasant way.

And if you think that the HP, Dell, or whatever laptop that as it happens was designed and manufactured in the same facility that makes the Apple equivalent, or maybe one just down the street, doesn't suffer from all of the same problems, you're every bit as delusional as the worst Apple fanboi.

As for the premium prices for Apple products - which turn out to be not as premium as is often claimed - there's a simple solution to that: Buy used. I'm writing this on a maxed out Early 2011 Macbook Pro, which I bought used for maybe $600 4-5 years ago. The only thing I've had to replace is the battery (once), and that was done under warranty. (The reason for this specific model is the matte antiglare screen - this is the next to the last model that offered it and the after-market products I've seen don't really cut it. My eyesight is complete shit, so this is important to me.)

Now I need to get back to further wrecking my eyesight - I have a handful of SMT components - most smaller than a grain of rice - I need to solder into something I'm building.

[Brive1987]

But tell me. Are you aware that you have failed to construct a cogent argument establishing the benefit of liberal (civic national) principles as a way to organise a strong nation? Let alone a defence of the pragmatic implementation of civic nationalism in the West. Yet all the while you have become increasingly and disturbingly infantile towards people pointing at the naked emperor.

It's not like I have written extensively about what to do to promote integration in the past, with lengthy posts about measures to tailor immigration to economic needs, how to reform refugee laws to allow in people who are fleeing cultural oppression while keeping out those who are supporting it. It's not like I have pointed out the negative influence of conservative/reactionary islam, of Gulf States paying regressive "community leaders", and how to curtail that, so much that people have gotten tired of reading it. It's not like I have pointed out how neoliberal/neoconservative policies have affected integration, or lack there of, along with child care and so birth rates. It's not like I have discuss at length how civic programs which promote inter-community cooperation for a higher goal might be sorely needed to fight against cultural isolation and ghettoization. It's not like I have pointed out the importance of education to teach civil values and create the climate where second-generation immigrants can assimilate to the liberal democratic values.

Yes, you have done this to a greater or lesser extent. Your word count is fact. That wasn’t my criticism though was it? You have a concept of a liberal, values driven non ethnic non dominant-culture based society. Aka “civic nationalism”. RL suggests this is a model with serious problems. You haven’t convincingly demonstrated why the liberal goal should even be on the table.

It's not like I have pointed out WHY "first world" societies NEED immigration IF it's controlled and regulated to promote access to productive workers. It's not like I have pointed out how Japan, which has one of the strictest immigration policies in the world, suffers from the same problems that some people here attribute to immigration, and how its economic and social system suffers from an aging population.

No, this is all infantile.

A number of your recent posts suggest a derangement syndrome of some sort.

Meanwhile you've replied with lots of youtube videos about the idyllic Australian life when there were no pesky non-white people. That's very mature. Sophisticated, even.

Videos that contrasted the stability of cultural-consensus against the multicultural approach. Mostly to offset your ethnostate straw-mobs.

The best you have got is that they are here. That that’s great for our pensions. That more should come and soon. And all we need to do is convince ‘em to drop their own developed culture in favour of Miley Cyrus, ANZAC Day and elusive qualities like ‘free speech’.

What I've done is point out WHY those immigration policies were pursued, and HOW you need to regulate them to reduce their issues and increase their benefits. I've also argued about how civic principles can be taught, how you need to address problems of isolation, of cultural entrenchment, through civic institutions and education. I've discussed PLENTY of times about the negative effects of foreign powers actions, like in the case of the Gulf theocracy, and how to counter this, something that can apply to China, too, with the necessary differences.

Increased benefits is begging the question. Without having dealt with the civic nationalist elephant, your education initiatives et al are topics of mundane and questionable admin.

Also, yes, of course, Enlightenment principles are "elusive qualities". Well, they're elusive until they're not part of your country, then you end up with theocracy or authoritarian dictatorships. But I guess that if the theocracy is Christian, or the authoritarian regime is for the good of the Volk, then it's OK for "some" people. I don't think you want those things, but deriding free speech as an "elusive quality" is not a good start.

I’m pointing out that vaunted liberal values are elastic and often elusive in RL liberal democracies. Ask nazi dog man. I’m also learning that nuance is lost on you.

Meanwhile you reap the benefits of a society far further down the pathway to cultural defense than the poor bastard countries whose defenders you label as closet nazis.

OK. Let's make it clear. HOW will you defend your Anglo-White ethno-state? HOW do you apply your project in practice? What do you do to the non-white people who already leave in Australia? Steersman-esque "population transfers"? Isolating them further in specific areas? Limiting the number of children they can have by law?

Also, maybe, if you don't want to be even remotely associated with the alt-right, you shouldn't constantly praise the alt-right

Nice turn of the wheel. I call you out for embracing a life style ultimately founded on not civic nationalism and you want to make it about me. :lol: I’ve already listed pragmatic actions I would take. We diverge largely not in the size of the jackboot but in the direction of the kick. You want to ferret out illiberalism, I want to re-establish a common cultural based social contract.

I’ll stop referencing the alt-lite when commentators like yourself surpass their commonsense to BS ratio.

[Guest_b8931fdb]

And if you think that the HP, Dell, or whatever laptop that as it happens was designed and manufactured in the same facility that makes the Apple equivalent, or maybe one just down the street, doesn't suffer from all of the same problems, you're every bit as delusional as the worst Apple fanboi.

As for the premium prices for Apple products - which turn out to be not as premium as is often claimed - there's a simple solution to that: Buy used. I'm writing this on a maxed out Early 2011 Macbook Pro, which I bought used for maybe $600 4-5 years ago. The only thing I've had to replace is the battery (once), and that was done under warranty. (The reason for this specific model is the matte antiglare screen - this is the next to the last model that offered it and the after-market products I've seen don't really cut it. My eyesight is complete shit, so this is important to me.)

I agree with much of what you wrote, but...

The Dell and HP are not nearly as expensive as Apple.
Used isn't a great solution since it is mostly as-is with no warranty.

I often think of the many headaches of Windows and Android and even suggest Apple to folks who want or need an appliance, so it's disappointing to see that Apple then mistreats these people.

The phones are the worst of it, I think, as often times, the phones are bought for kids and teens and the elderly, people who need a robust, reliable appliance.

[screwtape]

Maybe you're right in terms of age distribution when it comes to the US. Immigrants to Europe seem to be definitely younger than the average age of the host country.

https://i.imgur.com/PaaJ10C.png

From here

https://i.imgur.com/PaaJ10C.png

Just thought I'd make my contribution to the debate.

1830499.main_image.jpg

You may now return to your scheduled programming.


Sorry, in a silly mood, the graph shapes sorta reminded me of something.

I know where you're going:

iu.png

(205.83 KiB) Downloaded 160 times

And I'm not going with you.

[InfraRedBucket]

I wasnt going to go there but...

44597fdb-a576-4925-8bea-f63d6baa86fc-2060x1236.jpeg

(46.46 KiB) Downloaded 160 times

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... g-backlash

[Matt Cavanaugh]

There's a reason why Consumer Reports and others give Apple the highest marks for reliability out of all the laptop brands, and I don't think it's because everyone that buys Apple is a fanboi willing to overlook major failures.
[....]
And if you think that the HP, Dell, or whatever laptop that as it happens was designed and manufactured in the same facility that makes the Apple equivalent, or maybe one just down the street, doesn't suffer from all of the same problems, you're every bit as delusional as the worst Apple fanboi.

I'm on my January 2015 MacBook pro which, knock on wood, has held up great. Cost me $1300 souped up with loaded RAM and a 1TB drive. The original DVD drive was built on a Turkish Monday, but they replaced it free and so far the replacement has worked fine. The shell is one piece aluminum and sturdy as hell. The environment at the ranch is less than pristine. Plus, it runs the Mac OS, which is infinitely better than that hoary old DOS shell on PCs.

Around that time, I helped a GF pick a PC that fit her budget ($400-600) We went low end, a $375 HP ?? laptop. Flimsy and wonky as shit. But I told her to consider it semi-disposable, like a Glad™ food storage tub only not as sturdy. The $800 model was just as flimsy, only bigger. The $1200 Dell was bigger, had more useless features, and almost as flimsy.

I'm no Apple fanboi; I just happen to like their products for the most part. OTOH, the anti-mac boiz seem a bit fanatical.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

At WEIT, Heather Hastie finally responds to my debunking of her immigration assertions. Her reply: she doesn't have the spoons to answer right now.

[AndrewV69]

What the far right forget is how integrated into Britain immigrants can be. Listen to Charlie Williams accent and try to tell me he wa
s not a part of British society .ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WucumXbAsk

When I was a pre-teen I encountered my first "British" Black man. Despite his accent he was accepted (somewhat) into the Brit expat community (this was in the 3rd. world where I spent many of my formative years)

He and his wife (white BTW) had very strong Liverpool accents. He had been sent by the Home Office to ride herd on the local blacks and the word was they did not like it one little bit at all.

Everyone was uncomfortable with him. The whites because of his accent. He may as well have been a Cockney for one. The blacks because he was a white man with a black skin and clearly not on their side.

Everyone was relieved and some envious when he was promoted and recalled home to bigger and better things.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

We are doomed.

https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculinut_poster.html

[katamari Damassi]

Anthropologist Marvin Harris had an interesting theory on how men became the dominant sex. It has to do with war. Tribal skirmishes were necessary to keep populations from exceeding the carrying capacity of their territories, not primarily through casualties-though that did help cull the old and sick-but by placing a premium on male births. When your weapons are spears and clubs, upper body strength can decide who lives and who dies.

Got a link? Cuz that sounds like

Complete Nonsense

Sorry I read it a long time ago. I tried googling but didn't come up with anything useful. What seems nonsensical about it?

[Ape+lust]

We are doomed.

https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculinut_poster.html

Charlie Whitman would've appreciated their bunching under the clock tower like that.

[Brive1987]

The man is correct.

But I still feel uncomfortable when Shermer references circle jerks. I suspect he has first hand knowledge.

:cdc:

[Brive1987]

Where Rebecca Watson is raped by a Bag of Biscuits .

A useful benchmark with which to measure the horrors she endured in the elevator.

[Brive1987]

Professor Lee, famous for having his wife go down on her knees for him during a live news interview, has struck again.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lea ... 2290e11268

He is angry that Trump has received praise for a perceived “win” over Korea. It’s wrong wrong wrong.

Though he acknowledges:

Yes, it might be the reason,but we don’t know

No sign of the wife, alas.

Clearly there was far less ambiguity over Obama’s first 11 days in office prior to his Nobel prize nomination deadline.

Obama's promotion of nuclear nonproliferation and a "new climate" in international relations fostered by Obama, especially in reaching out to the Muslim world.

The inaugural “Anyone but Bush with a garnish of race” gong.

[MarcusAu]

Where Rebecca Watson is raped by a Bag of Biscuits .

A useful benchmark with which to measure the horrors she endured in the elevator.

So, how about that airline food?

I can only only hope that there is something more substantial going on in her life than this sub open-mike comedy twitter routine would indicate. If not I can see her upping the dose on her anti-depressents sometime soon.

[KiwiInOz]

The man is correct.

But I still feel uncomfortable when Shermer references circle jerks. I suspect he has first hand knowledge.

:cdc:

Does it make you poly if you engage in a circle jerk?

[Brive1987]

This is how MSM reported that academic’s maybe but I can’t be sure series of tweets.

http://i.imgur.com/9yDWguF.jpg

First paragraph and we read it’s actually

Supporters say Mr Trump was the X-factor that brought the two Korean leaders together on Friday for a historic meeting on the border between the two nations.

Luckily they always get the important stuff right.

[Brive1987]

The man is correct.

But I still feel uncomfortable when Shermer references circle jerks. I suspect he has first hand knowledge.

:cdc:


htt.ps://twitter.com/michaelshermer/status/990769470078574594?s=21

Does it make you poly if you engage in a circle jerk?

Only if you watch. Or make discrete but appreciative squeaking noises.

So I have been told.

[Kirbmarc]

Yes, you have done this to a greater or lesser extent. Your word count is fact. That wasn’t my criticism though was it? You have a concept of a liberal, values driven non ethnic non dominant-culture based society. Aka “civic nationalism”. RL suggests this is a model with serious problems. You haven’t convincingly demonstrated why the liberal goal should even be on the table.

What would you require as evidence that liberal democratic values are worth defending? Would a world map of the Human Development Index be enough?

https://i.imgur.com/dCJAKkp.jpg

Note how liberal democracies are in dark blue, while less liberal democracies (the Visegrad pact countries, for example: Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic) are in lighter blue, while authoritarian kleptocracies (Russia, Serbia, Kazakhstan) are in light green, the same level of oil-rich theocracies like Iran or Saudi Arabia, and it's all downhill from there, with a clear relationship between how authoritarian and/or affected by political instability, coups, and civil wars a country has been and how non-developed it is. Note the huge difference between Bostwana (a growing liberal democratic country, in light green) and its next-door neighbor Zimbabwe (an authoritarian, identity politics based clusterfuck, in dark red).

If you prefer a map of world press freedom, here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/CV7vMlq.png

Note how the most liberal countries are in green or yellow (good or satisfactory situation) and it's again all downwhill from there (Poland is still in yellow because illiberal laws to limit freedom of the press hadn't already been passed).

Do I need more maps to show that liberal democracies are a better system of government than more authoritarian ones? How about a map of infant mortality?

https://i.imgur.com/ZPCMUuP.png

Note the positive effect of decades of belonging to the liberal democracy EU system in Greece vs Bulgaria or vs Turkey, both of which had serious illiberalism problems in the recent past, even though Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey are pretty close in terms of genetics and culture, certainly closer than Greece and Germany or Greece and France. Note also how oil-rich but illiberal countries (Saudi Arabia, the UAE) have higher degrees of infant mortality, showing that wealth isn't the only factor, access to good healthcare is (indeed the US, where access to quality healthcare is limited, shows a higher rate of infant mortality).

I'm not an uber-fanboy of the European Union, it has many flaws that need to be addressed (lack of accountability of the European elites and dubious financial plans, for a start) but it's undeniable that the promotion of liberal democratic values through the EU has done a lot to make countries who belong to it better in many respects.

A number of your recent posts suggest a derangement syndrome of some sort.

I guess that when you had fun trolling PZ Myers' commentariat you showed a derangement syndrome, too.

Videos that contrasted the stability of cultural-consensus against the multicultural approach. Mostly to offset your ethnostate straw-mobs.

Or was a way to boost your narrative by hiding issues in the past through a selective use of a positive documentary, and by highlighting the problems of the present via juxtaposition.

Increased benefits is begging the question. Without having dealt with the civic nationalist elephant, your education initiatives et al are topics of mundane and questionable admin.

My education initiatives and other proposals are ways to fix issues without giving up liberal democratic values. Your proposal are more dubious in how they'd affect liberal democracies. Given the benefits of a liberal democratic system, as shown above, the burden of proof that your proposals won't do more harm than good is onto you.

I’m pointing out that vaunted liberal values are elastic and often elusive in RL liberal democracies. Ask nazi dog man. I’m also learning that nuance is lost on you.

No country is perfectly liberal and democratic. But there's a matter of degrees. If you think that liberal values are "elusive" in the UK, compare and contrast the situation in Britain to any non-liberal democratic country, or a less liberal democratic country. In Poland or Hungary attacks on the freedom of press are commonplace. in the Czech Republic, a journalist who was investigating government corruption was killed, along with his girlfriend, under very suspicious circumstances. In Russia murder of journalists critical of the regime is so commonplace that they number in the hundreds.

The Nazi pug brouhaha was stupid and shameful, and the guy should have never been prosecuted, but it's an imperfection of the system, hardly comparable to the daily assaults on freedoms in less liberal countries. In the end there was CONSIDERABLE backlash against the prosecution of Dankula, so much that a BIG spotlight was given to the excesses of the judiciary. Compare and contrast with the low-level reporting on illiberal attacks on freedom of the press in less liberal countries.

Nice turn of the wheel. I call you out for embracing a life style ultimately founded on not civic nationalism and you want to make it about me. :lol: I’ve already listed pragmatic actions I would take. We diverge largely not in the size of the jackboot but in the direction of the kick. You want to ferret out illiberalism, I want to re-establish a common cultural based social contract.

I’ll stop referencing the alt-lite when commentators like yourself surpass their commonsense to BS ratio.

The "direction of the kick" is important. I want to preserve liberal democratic rights and values, which have produced considerably good results in terms of human development, by kicking out or taking down the illiberal forces and produce integration. You want to openly discard liberal democratic values in favor of some vaguely defined, potentially illiberal mix of cultural and religious-based restrictions.

Why we fight and what we fight are important.

[Kirbmarc]

This is how MSM reported that academic’s maybe but I can’t be sure series of tweets.

http://i.imgur.com/9yDWguF.jpg

First paragraph and we read it’s actually

Supporters say Mr Trump was the X-factor that brought the two Korean leaders together on Friday for a historic meeting on the border between the two nations.

Luckily they always get the important stuff right.

The clickbait model of online journalism (exaggerated headline for mundane content) is a source of many stupid takes.

[Kirbmarc]

Now, are there any hard numbers quantifying the exact costs of supporting the senior bubble, and the exact contribution to GNP or whatever that these immigrants are providing? Remember: for this scheme to work, the average immigrant must produce more in net economic terms than the average native. I can wait while you compile the data.

I've found this:

Our sensitivity analysis shows that overall migration has a positive impact on the sustainability of the public finances over our 50 year horizon. Under our central assumption of 140,000 annual net inward migration from 2016 the public sector net debt to GDP ratio reaches 99 per cent by 2062-63, while assuming zero gross migration increases the net debt to GDP ratio to over 174 per cent. Theseresults are driven by the assumed age structure of net migration, which tends tobe more concentrated in the working age group and hence reduces thedependency ratio throughout the projection period.

(at page 148)

Now I'm not an economist, so I leave to you the task to evaluate whether this projection is sensible. It was ran by the Office for Budget Responsbility, a British public body that offers an independent analysis of the UK finances, so I assume it's reliable.

[shoutinghorse]

Where Rebecca Watson is raped by a Bag of Biscuits .

A useful benchmark with which to measure the horrors she endured in the elevator.

So, how about that airline food?

I can only only hope that there is something more substantial going on in her life than this sub open-mike comedy twitter routine would indicate. If not I can see her upping the dose on her anti-depressents sometime soon.

Well she's predicting her early death. You know it must be hard living a life of California surf, endless road trips, criss crossing the States to go visit 'friends', having your very own cuck to pay the bills. Is it any wonder the poor lamb suffers. :(

[Keating]

Brive and Kirb continue to argue at cross purposes. Jelly wrestling continues to be the only way to resolve it. I’m sure we can crowd fund a Slymepit meetup to enable it.

[Brive1987]

Re Kirb/Matt convo.

After 5 secs thought (so beware) ....

I thought it was read that the total economy (and hence GDP) increases with immigration as more infrastructure and baristas are required. But (in Australia’s case at least), the actual wage per worker has stagnated. Ie a bigger pie with more mouths munching.

So I could imagine a percentage improvement for an increasing debt set against a significantly “increasing” economy.

Meanwhile your cities turn into Blade Runner.

[KiwiInOz]

I'm being called an alt-righter in Guardian comments because I used the terms SJW and purity purges. (Imagine if they knew I was a Slymepitter too). I feel so dirty.

[SM1957]

I think that net immigration is so good for a country that every country in the world should have a policy of net immigration.

I am not an economist, but this sounds a great way to boost every country's economy.

[shoutinghorse]

I'm being called an alt-righter in Guardian comments because I used the terms SJW and purity purges. (Imagine if they knew I was a Slymepitter too). I feel so dirty.

They will find you ........

[Brive1987]

Brive and Kirb continue to argue at cross purposes. Jelly wrestling continues to be the only way to resolve it. I’m sure we can crowd fund a Slymepit meetup to enable it.

Will there be beer?

.......


The convo is moving in a weird direction.

Thanks Kirb for the maps. I am prepared to concede that the West is far superior to shit hole countries across a range of metrics. This despite post WWII left-liberal civic nationalism. Not because of it. It’s credit that can’t be drawn down on for long.

I’m getting whip lash about whether you are referring to my video(s) or my video. Those goal posts keep moving. Each tried to demonstrate the benign nature of a society based on cultural consensus. I used various layers of subtlety and exaggeration for effect. This to offset your well poisoning.

I have no idea why you think I’m advocating for a journo-killing police state. That didn’t seem to happen back in the good ol days.. My point was that the planks underlying civic nationalism have demonstrated a scary fluidity for objective, culture shattering truth. The civic values on display in Germany, Sweden, UK and Canada are pretty shitty things for nation-state definition. As the poles literally demonstrated back in November and as the Hungarians have just reinforced.

Re

You want to openly discard liberal democratic values in favor of some vaguely defined, potentially illiberal mix of cultural and religious-based restrictions.

This is why I can’t take you seriously. I will have to inform my parents they can run from their Nazi past but Kirb will always find them. Given I’ll need a seance, I may as well let my grandfather know what a Turk feels about his service on Gallipoli. I suspect it won’t be what he expects. :lol:

[Keating]

I think that net immigration is so good for a country that every country in the world should have a policy of net immigration.

I am not an economist, but this sounds a great way to boost every country's economy.

This is too good to be at the bottom, and forms a big part of my objection.

There’s also an ethical component: taking the best people from shithole country X, means that X will continue to be a shithole. It does suck for those people, but it seems to me X will only improve if its best people are there to improve it.

Sure, that may mean we teach their best people how to run a good country, and maybe even help establish institutions. (There is the problem that our universities no longer teach our people how to do this.)

[Brive1987]

Oh and Kirb

http://i.imgur.com/mpIVGMU.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

[Keating]

I'm being called an alt-righter in Guardian comments because I used the terms SJW and purity purges. (Imagine if they knew I was a Slymepitter too). I feel so dirty.

I like to think everyone in the Guardian’s comments is an alt-right Slymepitter troll. It’ makes reading the Guardian a far less depressing experience.

[Brive1987]

I think that net immigration is so good for a country that every country in the world should have a policy of net immigration.

I am not an economist, but this sounds a great way to boost every country's economy.

This is too good to be at the bottom, and forms a big part of my objection.

There’s also an ethical component: taking the best people from shithole country X, means that X will continue to be a shithole. It does suck for those people, but it seems to me X will only improve if its best people are there to improve it.

Sure, that may mean we teach their best people how to run a good country, and maybe even help establish institutions. (There is the problem that our universities no longer teach our people how to do this.)

So you are basically saying that It’s unfair to force people to move when the illiberal lumpy distribution of wealth could simply be redistributed?

[Kirbmarc]

Thanks Kirb for the maps. I am prepared to concede that the West is far superior to shit hole countries across a range of metrics. This despite post WWII left-liberal civic nationalism. Not because of it. It’s credit that can’t be drawn down on for long.

Argument by assertion.

Since WWII, and even since the 1960s, Australia has enjoyed a growth in GDP, living standards, human development index, to the point that it has one of the highest median wealth per adults in the entire world. This process 'hasn't been straightforward (the 1973 oil crisis or the 1990 economic crisis took their toll), but the onus is on you to show that the high living standards in Australia post-WWII have been achieved DESPITE the post-WII liberal world order, instead of THANKS to it.

I’m getting whip lash about whether you are referring to my video(s) or my video. Those goal posts keep moving. Each tried to demonstrate the benign nature of a society based on cultural consensus. I used various layers of subtlety and exaggeration for effect. This to offset your well poisoning.

There are no "goal post" because you haven't made a clear point about what exactly is lacking today that was present in the past, except the "cultural-ethnic consensus". I'm not arguing that Autralia pre-recent immigration was Nazi-land, that'd be insane. I'm simply saying that it wasn't an utopia, either, and I'm arguing that the attempt to GO BACK to that situation in terms of ethnic composition, which seems to be what you support, is fraught with potential illiberal dangers, especially if one emphasizes ethnic origin over shared social values.

To make an analogy there's nothing wrong with being nostalgic about a relatively happy childhood, as long as one doesn't want to go back to living like a kid when they're an adult.

I have no idea why you think I’m advocating for a journo-killing police state. That didn’t seem to happen back in the good ol days.. My point was that the planks underlying civic nationalism have demonstrated a scary fluidity for objective, culture shattering truth. The civic values on display in Germany, Sweden, UK and Canada are pretty shitty things for nation-state definition. As the poles literally demonstrated back in November and as the Hungarians have just reinforced.

I'm not saying that you are advocating for the journo-killing police state. I'm pretty sure you're not in favor of that. I'm simply pointing out that the ethno-nationalist attempts to go back to the pre-immigration past seem to foster illiberal attitudes, like in the cases of Poland and Hungary, which you seem to praise.

Orbán included full-blown dictatorships (Russia and China) in the roster of governments he admires, along with quasi-democratic illiberal states (Turkey and Singapore) and one genuine, if inconsistent, democracy (India).

Third, he signaled his support for majoritarianism, with its disdain for checks and balances and civil society, as opposed to the values of pluralism that are enshrined in liberal democratic practice.

The message here is important. For many, illiberalism’s defining feature is intolerance toward minority groups: the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) community, Roma, Muslims, refugees and migrants of all sorts. But in Hungary and elsewhere, illiberal government signifies something much more comprehensive than the prime minister asserting that “every single migrant poses a public security and terror risk,”3 and that refugees bring “gangs hunting down our women and daughters”4—two of Orbán’s more incendiary declarations.

Since coming to power with a parliamentary majority in October 2015, PiS has embarked on a course of change that places it solidly in the illiberal camp, with many of the initiatives mirroring those enacted by Fidesz in Hungary.

As in Hungary, an initial focus for the new government was securing control of the Constitutional Tribunal. PiS has moved to pack the court with its own appointees, using tactics that are blatantly illegal according to Polish law and which have drawn criticism both from the EU and the United States.16 However, party leader Jarosław Kaczyński, who holds a seat in the parliament but no formal government position, has much greater ambitions to refashion Poland along culturally conservative and politically illiberal lines.

The media are a major target. The government quickly asserted control over public broadcasters and purged them of journalists whom it regarded as loyal to the opposition.17 PiS officials have also spoken of the need to “restore balance” to the private media by, among other things, taking measures to reduce foreign ownership of key outlets. Already, the new government has used its power over the allocation of state advertising to reward friendly media and punish its critics.18

The new government has involved itself in a debate over history. It proposed a law that would punish those who use the phrase “Polish death camps” to refer to sites established by Nazi Germany in Poland during World War II.19 PiS leaders have demonized scholars, such as the eminent historian Jan Gross, who have published research on the participation of Poles in the persecution of Jews during the war. Gross was questioned by a prosecutor on his research, and there was talk of rescinding an award he had received.20 The government threatened to withdraw support from the Museum of the Second World War, a project that was near completion in Gdansk and enjoyed strong support from such highly regarded scholars as Timothy Snyder and Norman Davies. PiS complained that the museum focused on all victims of the conflict rather than on specifically Polish suffering.21

Perhaps the most unsettling measure enacted under the PiS government is an ambitious law that, in the name of counterterrorism, gives the security services sweeping powers over telecommunications and personal information. With this legislation, Poland became one of the first countries in the democratic world to embrace the use of telecommunications shutdowns in a particular area, a measure that smacks of digital repression.22

The law gives Poland’s domestic intelligence agency unrestricted access to personal data without approval from a court or any other body. Tax reports, vehicle information, insurance information, financial statements, and other records are all now available to the intelligence service of a government that has made a point of naming party loyalists to key security positions. The legislation also grants the domestic security agency the ability to shut down websites. The action can be reviewed by a court within five days, but this is far from reassuring in light of the government’s efforts to exert political control over the judiciary.

Are there problems with immigration and integration? Of course. Is the route to solve them to foster an illiberal attitude that is cavalier about checks and balances, endorses conspiracy theories, takes down the division between the political and the judiciary, limits freedom of the press, etc.? I really don't think so. However these illiberal changes and threats to liberal democracy seem to go hand in hand with the "ethno-nationalist" attitude of Poland and Hungary, which people in the "ethno-nationalist" camp, from Southern to Pettibone, have praised.

This is why I can’t take you seriously. I will have to inform my parents they can run from their Nazi past but Kirb will always find them. Given I’ll need a seance, I may as well let my grandfather know what a Turk feels about his service on Gallipoli. I suspect it won’t be what he expects. :lol:

This isn't what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Australia in the past was Nazi, far from it. What I'm saying is that the modern ethno-nationalist crowd (Southern, Goldy, Pettibone &co) have dangerous affinities and praise for systems like Hungary under Orban and Poland under the PiS, which are showing worrying signals of eroding liberal democratic principles.

I'm not saying that the past of Australia was one of oppression. I'm pointing out that the attempt to "return to the past" through ethno-nationalist policies threaten the same liberal democratic values that helped to developed the high standards of living and high levels of civil liberties of the past. I don't even have a beef with you as a person, or with (most of) your proposals (at least the ones you've discussed here, although the devil with many of them is in the details). I'm simply pointing out that the "alt-right" crowd have dangerous ideas that shade into illiberalism, with a neo-nazi contingent trying to sneak in neo-nazi memes under the cover of simply wanting to "make the west great again"-

Australia fought the Nazis. Now there are new menaces, which include (for example) muslim theocracy. However now there are also an online contingent of people which praise political regimes who are engaging in illiberal practices, who peddle some theories that have a neo-nazi origin, and are openly flirting with the neo-nazi edge.

I'm not saying that Australia in the 1960s was Nazi-land. It definitely wasn't. I'm not saying YOU are a nazi, or want an illiberal government. I'm warning you about the company you keep, the Lauren Southerns, the Faith Goldys, the Brittany Pettibones, and about the dangers of letting some ideas which have connections to neo-nazism seep into your thoughts.

"White Australia" worked fine with not a whiff of neo-nazism in sight. "Making Australia White Again" is, well, a shady project, which seeps into some shady territory.

[Keating]

I’d be happy if immigration levels just returned to early ‘90s level. We can’t even have a discussion about reducing net intake by 20,000 without the ‘racist’ label being thrown around.

I really hate the idea of a Big Australia. I think Australia with 50 million would be a complete disaster. I’m already a single issue voter on this issue and tell that to my representatives whenever I get the chance.

[Kirbmarc]

Oh and Kirb

http://i.imgur.com/mpIVGMU.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

Seriously?

Switzerland isn't Hungary or Poland. There ARE ethno-nationalists here, but they're not in power. The government isn't removing checks and balances, attacking the division of powers, or flirting with neo-nazi ideologues. A picture of white children in traditional clothes is a pretty piss-poor argument against my objection to the ethno-nationalist online movement and its connections to illiberal regimes, parties and other movements.

As if I've ever said that those traditional clothes are "oppressive" or "white supremacy". I'm not a SJW. I don't have any problems with people celebrating their traditions as private individuals, along with their families. I have problems with people CODIFYING an EXPLICITLY ethnic based system which threatens civil liberties.

[Kirbmarc]

Basically:

if you want to celebrate your cultural origin and traditions, go for it! Have parties, dress up, celebrate, have fun, and if the SocJus busybodies bother you by saying that just by celebrating your own origins you're being a "white supremacist", tell them to go to hell. The state should stay out of this matter and let people do peaceful celebrations as much as they want, or protest them as much as they want, without taking sides, simply enforcing law and order.

Hell, if you want to "culturally appropriate" other cultures, go for it. The whining idiots who complain about "cultural appropriation" are morons who don't understand that cultures mix and match all the time, and they need to get off their high horse.

And yes, people who say that "white people are evil" or that "European cultures are inherently oppressive", you're a moron who should never be in a position of power in any rational group. This includes the left. I'm pretty sure I've written A LOT about the stupidity, counter-productive nature, and overall obnoxiousness of the SocJus outrage brigades. People who get upset with clothes, video games and movies should have no place within politics. Go back to your tumblr and whine some more.

Oblivion and mockery are the best cure for the SocJus, they're only relevant because the media write about their stupid ideas as if they make any sense, when it's a bunch of feminist glaciology, horse-girl assemblages, and "strategic butt coverings". To call them bullshit is to be insulting to bullshit.

There's a different matter, though, when it comes to the "alt-right". The "alt-right" project threatens not just the easily offended online bitches, but some more important, namely the liberal democratic system. The "alt-righters" are openly supporting regimes which are threatening separation of powers, the freedom of the press, and have ties to authoritarian dictatorships. They're proposing a legal system based not on values and pragmatic considerations, but on ethnic origin. They're peddling exaggerations to support their case, like the "Great Replacement" or the "Incoming Caliphate".

The endgame of the "alt-right" seems vague, but their association with some neo-nazi figures, or "white nationalists" (Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, etc.) cast some serious doubts on what they actually want. Their praise for Orban or the PiS is also "problematic".

This is what I'm talking about.

[Brive1987]

I’d be happy if immigration levels just returned to early ‘90s level. We can’t even have a discussion about reducing net intake by 20,000 without the ‘racist’ label being thrown around.

I really hate the idea of a Big Australia. I think Australia with 50 million would be a complete disaster. I’m already a single issue voter on this issue and tell that to my representatives whenever I get the chance.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 00-h368-nc

[Brive1987]

Oh and Kirb

[i.mg]http://i.imgur.com/mpIVGMU.jpg%5B/IMG%5D[/img]

Seriously?

Switzerland isn't Hungary or Poland. There ARE ethno-nationalists here, but they're not in power. The government isn't removing checks and balances, attacking the division of powers, or flirting with neo-nazi ideologues. A picture of white children in traditional clothes is a pretty piss-poor argument against my objection to the ethno-nationalist online movement and its connections to illiberal regimes, parties and other movements.

As if I've ever said that those traditional clothes are "oppressive" or "white supremacy". I'm not a SJW. I don't have any problems with people celebrating their traditions as private individuals, along with their families. I have problems with people CODIFYING an EXPLICITLY ethnic based system which threatens civil liberties.

Have you forgotten the source site for the pic?

https://shortlist.imgix.net/app/uploads ... 2Ccompress

[Kirbmarc]

Oh and Kirb

[i.mg]http://i.imgur.com/mpIVGMU.jpg%5B/IMG%5D[/img]

Seriously?

Switzerland isn't Hungary or Poland. There ARE ethno-nationalists here, but they're not in power. The government isn't removing checks and balances, attacking the division of powers, or flirting with neo-nazi ideologues. A picture of white children in traditional clothes is a pretty piss-poor argument against my objection to the ethno-nationalist online movement and its connections to illiberal regimes, parties and other movements.

As if I've ever said that those traditional clothes are "oppressive" or "white supremacy". I'm not a SJW. I don't have any problems with people celebrating their traditions as private individuals, along with their families. I have problems with people CODIFYING an EXPLICITLY ethnic based system which threatens civil liberties.

Have you forgotten the source site for the pic?

https://shortlist.imgix.net/app/uploads ... 2Ccompress

When have I ever said I'm against traditional Swiss clothes or choirs?

[MarcusAu]

I'm being called an alt-righter in Guardian comments because I used the terms SJW and purity purges. (Imagine if they knew I was a Slymepitter too). I feel so dirty.

I like to think everyone in the Guardian’s comments is an alt-right Slymepitter troll. It’ makes reading the Guardian a far less depressing experience.

It's not as unlikely as it seems on first glance.

The alt-right (at least the younger ones such as RamZPaul, Millennial Woes, Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch and rest of The Right Stuff crew) are quite familiar with the value of mocking or using humour against their opponents.

There was a youtube clip where Enoch talked about going under cover on the Atheism+ board to troll / enlighten them to the JQ. And you may have also seen 'The Summer of 88' clip posted here earlier too.

[Hunt]

On PZ's incel post, vucodlak composes, perhaps unwittingly, what must be something of a SJW manifesto. Either that or s/hit is a Poe.

I think this paean to self-hate captures something I've noticed a lot about SJW, as exemplified by PZ and others. At their core they're misanthropes. They look at the world and see its rottenness as a result of the inherent rottenness of humanity and in particular, themselves. All expressions of outward hatred are ultimately traced to inward hate, self-hate. And they are certainly not in short supply of outward hatred. Contrast that with certain contemplative philosophies that strive for self-love and self compassion as the means to better the world, even though the world is still rotten. vucodlak advances the inverse notion: we should all hate ourselves. Only then will the world get better (for whom?) Illogically, he thinks we should be kind and compassionate to others, but hate ourselves. Why? Why should we love these other who don't even deserve their own love?

Still, as demented and twisted as his comments are, I think they're precisely diagnostic to what's wrong with SJWs. Probably without knowing it, s/hit has let the cat out of the bag. The Horde is going to stare at this strange black obelisk for a while before realizing it's a mirror.

vucodlak

29 April 2018 at 11:25 pm

Self-esteem, I think, plays a big role in this. It’s not that “incels” have too little, as I’ve seen some suggest, but that they have far too much.

It was a big thing from the 1980s on up, making sure children have “healthy” self-esteem, as though any amount of esteem for one’s self is healthy. It isn’t. If there’s one thing my parents did right in raising me, it’s teaching me how little worth I really have from a very early age, so that when people tried to tell me I was ‘special’ and ‘wonderful’ and ‘great’ I knew to scream “You’re a damned liar and liars get burned!”

But not by me, because I am not worthy.

These people… these “incels” believe themselves worthy. Worthy of kindness, worthy of love, worthy of sex, worthy even of slaves. They go out and murder people because they think they aren’t getting what they’re owed.

No. It doesn’t work that way. None are worthy. Get over yourselves, you wretched little pukes, and take a peek beneath your skin at the rotten thing underneath. LOOK AT IT. Do you love it? Does it love you? Does it love anything but its mask? No?

Then give it what it gives you. Take all that hate that you give to the world and everyone in it, and give it to that thing that lives inside your skin. Give it all. Don’t save a single drop for anyone or anything else.

You are not worthy. You don’t deserve a gods-be-damned thing, let alone a person bound to your beck-and-call. No one does. You take all that hate and turn it inward where it belongs; then and only then, when you are so full of self-loathing that you can’t even look at yourself in the mirror, can you join the rest of us in trying to make sense of this nightmare we all live in.

Self-hatred is the first step on the path to wisdom. Hate yourself first, before you think to hate another. Strive to fully understand why you should hate yourself, before you think to hate another. Here, I’ll give you one small hint: If you’re reading this, you’re already a slaver. And that’s just a beginning, a single cobblestone in the endless roads of our iniquity.

Follow every road to its end. Busy are these wicked highways; you’ll not have to travel them alone. But, until you put your hate where it belongs, alone is exactly where you belong.

Get moving.

vucodlak

30 April 2018 at 2:31 am

@ Azkyroth, B*Cos[F(u)]==Y, #34

Really? I thought I was quite clear that no one has the right to do to others as they please. Apparently not. So I’ll say it again.

No one has the right to treat other people like things. No one has the right to do with others however they please. No one has the right to ‘revenge themselves’ upon others. No one has the right to take their hate out on others.

Incels obviously believe they do have those rights. Nazis too. They are wrong. If they wish to hate, they should put that hate where it belongs, just as I have. Instead, they focus their hatred outward. I believe this is what comes of the endless lies about all the things we ‘deserve,’ as though the word had any meaning. Too often, these are things it’s impossible for all of us to have, because somebody always gets stepped on in the process.

We should be kind and merciful to one another; that’s what my hate has taught me. Not because anyone is worthy or deserving or special, but because it’s the only way things will ever get better.

Aren’t you the one whose friend was murdered by people who assumed him to be without value?

See, to me it’s beyond fucked up that someone sees a thing without value (as far as they can see) and thinks it’s therefore ok to do as they please with said thing, including destroy it. Everything has some kind of value. Forgetting that leads to carelessness and cruelty.

Saying people are not worthy is not the same as saying they are worthless. No one is worthless. However, no person is worthy to kill/enslave/exploit me or anyone else, because there is no meaningful way in which we can say one person’s life is more valuable than any other. Any attempt to measure people’s worth in this way leads us straight to hell every single time.

Even if someone or something were without value, what gives someone the right to harm or destroy them? What makes the destroyer so certain they have value?

My point is that every person needs to take a good, long look at themselves before they decide they have the right to do with someone else as they please.

@ Kreator, #35

I apologize, I didn’t think my comment would be triggering. I should have put a warning. However, I strongly disagree with this:

you’ll find out that incels already follow your advice and hate themselves quite a bit, they just project that hate upon women and whoever they perceive to be their allies/enablers.

That’s… pretty much the complete opposite of what I said. If they followed my advice, they wouldn’t be projecting. They’d know they have no right to say things like the OP.

I chose the language of self-hate because that’s the lens through which I view the world. I hate myself, and I’m a better person for it. Not a good person; I don’t have that in me. But I am a person who recognizes his guilt, who understands the road he walks on and helps to build is paved in bone and washed in blood.

Now, I can say “well I didn’t build this road alone,” or “everyone else walks a grisly path,” but those are evasions. Where my feet walk is my responsibility, and it is the steps I have (or haven’t) taken, in ignorance, cruelty and apathy, that fills me with self-loathing. I have played my part, and the only way I can hope to be a little better than I might otherwise have been is to remind myself where the hatred I feel for this path belongs: with me.

If I were a better person, maybe I could do more with love. I’m not. I barely understand the concept of love. There is a maxim (which I hate) that one should love one-self before expecting love from others. What do you do if you don’t understand love? I make do with what I have. I have hate, so I hate myself. It’s not fun, but it’s instructive.

Without love, empathy, too, is nearly alien to me. The only way I can get to it is to recognize that I am not worthy, yet I still hope for mercy and forgiveness. So I will try to be merciful and forgiving to others. Ersatz compassion is the only kind I have to offer.

It’s late, and I doubt I’m making any sense. Perhaps I’ll try again tomorrow, if it’s permitted.

[screwtape]

Brive and Kirb to the Pit:

iu.jpeg

(51.9 KiB) Downloaded 288 times

Time for your own thread?

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

My favorite Australian died..
http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/30/worlds-ol ... 09512/amp/

download (5).jpeg

(223.86 KiB) Downloaded 261 times

[Brive1987]

Brive and Kirb to the Pit:

iu.jpeg

Time for your own thread?

I don’t actually see a future in continued discussion.

Kirb belives Switzerland is a model liberal society despite an overwhelming and quite unique Euro focus re immigration. He seems to alternate between accepting I’m not a Nazi and suspecting I’m worse than Steersman. He’s a proponent of strong controls on immigration and a supporter of economic and population renewal ibased nflows. He recognises that integration and immigration don’t fit nicely together but doesn’t see that as a reason to question the premise. He can’t distinguish between approaches valuing culture / ethnicity vs race. He supports geographic traditional national borders and cos play dress-up but eschew nationalism rooted in ethnic or cultural identitarianism.

:doh:

[InfraRedBucket]

My favorite Australian died..
http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/30/worlds-ol ... 09512/amp/
download (5).jpeg

Already read about that, on the web.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

My favorite Australian died..
http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/30/worlds-ol ... 09512/amp/
download (5).jpeg

Already read about that, on the web.

It's really how it died that stings...

[Brive1987]

Wasps fuck up everything.

[Brive1987]

[Kirbmarc]

Brive and Kirb to the Pit:

iu.jpeg

Time for your own thread?

I don’t actually see a future in continued discussion.

Kirb belives Switzerland is a model liberal society despite an overwhelming and quite unique Euro focus re immigration. He seems to alternate between accepting I’m not a Nazi and suspecting I’m worse than Steersman. He’s a proponent of strong controls on immigration and a supporter of economic and population renewal ibased nflows. He recognises that integration and immigration don’t fit nicely together but doesn’t see that as a reason to question the premise. He can’t distinguish between approaches valuing culture / ethnicity vs race. He supports geographic traditional national borders and cos play dress-up but eschew nationalism rooted in ethnic or cultural identitarianism.

:doh:

This is a bunch of obfuscation on your part. My position is clear: no to EXPLICIT ethnic focus AS A LEGAL STANDARD, yes to selection according to a state- specific policy which works to promote integration. You're the one who's convinced that Switzerland is an ethno-state while there's NOTHING about race in the Swiss laws, it's all about integrating within the local context.

Cos play dress up is a meaningless distraction when talking about LAWS and RIGHTS. And I'm not worried about you, I'm worried about the people you support (Goldy, Southern, Generation Identitaire, etc.). I know that your aim is to keep in those who integrate and find disincentives for those who deliberately don't. The problem is that you're doing it wrong, by emphasizing identity and ethnicity instead integration, and promoting people who care ONLY about ethnicity as a proxy for race.

You're the one who is saying that selection for ability to integrate is the exact same thing as the explicitly ethnic focus, implying that race/ethnicity is the exact same thing as culture, or that ethnic cos play are the exact same thing as laws, as if people who want to become Swiss citizens are legally required to put on those clothes.

[Kirbmarc]

Basically what you're doing is analogous of saying that ethnicity, not ability is what should be used to select NBA players. I'm saying that ability matters more than ethnicity. You're replying "but most NBA players are black!", which misses the point.

The same thing is true about Switzerland. You're saying that you need an "ethnic focus" to select for nationality/access to the nation, I'm saying that ability to integrate is what is used to select immigrants who can acquire Swiss nationality, you're replying "but most of the people who acquire Swiss nationality are European", which again misses the point.

Tons of European residents in Switzerland don't get Swiss nationality, either, because they can't integrate for one reason or another. The bar for integration in Switzerland is very high, and it's not biased in favor of Europeans, it just happens that more Europeans find it easier to integrate for a series of linguistic and cultural reasons, just like more black people find it easier to become NBA players for a series of physiological and genetic reasons. Yet there are white NBA players, and non-white Swiss citizens. You're the equivalent of someone who says that the NBA is racist.

Lauren Southern, Faith Goldy, Brittany Pettibone and their cliques are ALL about ethnicity, about Great Replacements, about how terrible it is that there so many non-white people in France, about "the end of the west", and a series of other memes. They're basing their approach NOT on setting high bars for integration, or promoting it in some way, but simply on scaremongering in terms of ethnic-based narratives.

[Kirbmarc]

Another analogy: if you need pick 100 people according to height, and set the standard as high as 6 feet, you'll get mostly men, because men are taller than women. Yet if you truly need people taller than 6 feet for a specific task your standard isn't "sexist", it's just the way things go. Saying "no women allowed for this task" could be argued to be sexist, saying "no people shorter than 6 feet allowed" could not, no matter the fact that the results aren't a perfect gender balance.

http://4racism.org/racist/height-differences-sex.JPG

[MarcusAu]

Brive and Kirb to the Pit:

iu.jpeg

Time for your own thread?

Your cat looks like Troksky!

(And I'm sure nothing else of value will be gained from your post).

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Anthropologist Marvin Harris had an interesting theory on how men became the dominant sex. It has to do with war. Tribal skirmishes were necessary to keep populations from exceeding the carrying capacity of their territories, not primarily through casualties-though that did help cull the old and sick-but by placing a premium on male births. When your weapons are spears and clubs, upper body strength can decide who lives and who dies.

Got a link? Cuz that sounds like

Complete Nonsense

Sorry I read it a long time ago. I tried googling but didn't come up with anything useful. What seems nonsensical about it?

For starters, that tribal wars existed to keep population growth in check. Primitive warfare is highly ritualistic, with relatively few casualties. To affect the population, you'd need to kill large numbers of women & children, not just a few dudes. As for putting a premium on male births to provide 'recruits' for war, you'd need to practice massive scale female infanticide, and that simply didn't happen. The premium will always be on females, as the female womb is the bottleneck. Indeed, most primitive warfare revolves around stealing women from the other tribe.

Second, physical sex dimorphism in hominids existed long before the use of spears & clubs. Men didn't develop greater upper body strength because they wielded heavy weapons.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Now, are there any hard numbers quantifying the exact costs of supporting the senior bubble, and the exact contribution to GNP or whatever that these immigrants are providing? Remember: for this scheme to work, the average immigrant must produce more in net economic terms than the average native. I can wait while you compile the data.

I've found this:

Our sensitivity analysis shows that overall migration has a positive impact on the sustainability of the public finances over our 50 year horizon. Under our central assumption of 140,000 annual net inward migration from 2016 the public sector net debt to GDP ratio reaches 99 per cent by 2062-63, while assuming zero gross migration increases the net debt to GDP ratio to over 174 per cent. Theseresults are driven by the assumed age structure of net migration, which tends tobe more concentrated in the working age group and hence reduces thedependency ratio throughout the projection period.

(at page 148)

Now I'm not an economist, so I leave to you the task to evaluate whether this projection is sensible. It was ran by the Office for Budget Responsbility, a British public body that offers an independent analysis of the UK finances, so I assume it's reliable.

That report is filled with so many caveats and warnings about how their assumptions could be wrong and trends could change, that the very modest "positive impact" (an estimated net 0.10% increase in GDP to offset an additional 4.0% of GDP toward senior care) is hardly in the bag.

It also notes that immigrants cluster in either very high wage or very low wage occupations, but that recent trends are shifting to the low end.

But note again that the impact of the aging population is only 4.0 of GDP (£61 billion) through 2065. If an advanced, fiscally sound nation like the UK can't find a way to manage that, and is depending entirely on a 'solution' -- immigration -- that under the most optimistic projections can only meet a fraction of that, then it truly is impotent and doomed.

One final concern: the report notes that the fecundity of immigrant women is much higher than natives. Will not this lead to another 'baby boom' bubble' down the road?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

... more black people find it easier to become NBA players for a series of physiological and genetic reasons.

The NBA is predominantly black because blacks almost exclusively play basketball growing up. They don't play much baseball, they don't swim, and they sure as hell don't ice skate. It's cultural, not genetic.

You think you know so much about the US, but you don't.

[feathers]

I've been reading some of that incels.me forum. Holy shit! These guys are really fucked up. They desperately want sex but think it is awful and dirty. They wouldn't want a woman unless they are a virgin. They wouldn't think of kissing a nonvirginal woman because they can't get the thought out of their mind that some Chad has had their dick in her mouth.

You mean, incels are like muslims?

[John D]

... more black people find it easier to become NBA players for a series of physiological and genetic reasons.

The NBA is predominantly black because blacks almost exclusively play basketball growing up. They don't play much baseball, they don't swim, and they sure as hell don't ice skate. It's cultural, not genetic.

You think you know so much about the US, but you don't.

I agree that there is a cultural and access affect regarding race and sports. I also think there is a genetic affect. Both of you are right in a sense. If you don't think there is a genetic affect then you have not been watch the Olympic marathon races.

I have heard arguments that blacks are not as suited for swimming because of lung capacity issues... and that white men can't jump... haha. Some of this may be true. In any case, I think it is wrong to just dismiss it outright.