Steerzing in a New Direction...

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Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#241

Post by Service Dog »


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#242

Post by Service Dog »


Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#243

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Hey paisan, watch your mouth -- Tony 'Two Masks' Fauci is a made man.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#244

Post by Bhurzum »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Hey paisan, watch your mouth -- Tony 'Two Masks' Fauci is a made man.
Is that some sort of trans* thing?

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#245

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

John D wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:12 am
When you defer decision making to one type of expert... well... things go off the rails.

The world has now deferred to virologists. There is a virus... and... well... let's just listen to them right now.

This is a bad idea, but people are pretty stupid (zou3gou3) and they have trouble processing complex interactions. Most people just want to listen to one idea and then they can sleep well at night.
I think the public obstinacy has roots in the knowledge that they've been shepherded in directions they do not want to go with one existential threat after another as the excuse. There is increasing awareness of just how fake most of those threats are/were and they don't even care if the Cor threat is real or not, they have decided that they aren't going to be cajoled into taking even more damage to their way of life. Also, it's difficult to accept scolding from people who behave as if they don't even believe their own warnings of doom.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#246

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Bhurzum wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Hey paisan, watch your mouth -- Tony 'Two Masks' Fauci is a made man.
Is that some sort of trans* thing?
I dunno. But Andrew 'Nonna Killer' Cuomo just got whacked.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#247

Post by Service Dog »

Lsuoma wrote:
zou3gou3 wrote: Dog seems to have severe cognitive problems or — more likely — is just trolling, so I'll ignore him.
Why not both?

My dad was drafted to Vietnam. He worked on Construction projects there, clearing jungle to build concrete foundations for radio towers & other structures. Was awarded the Army Commendation Medal for an act of heroism under fire. He was massively exposed to Agent Orange.

The govt said it was harmless. Returning home-- their wives suffered miscarriages & a pattern emerged of children born with birth defects... matching effects occurring in Vietnam.

The US govt did NOT extend compensation to soldiers who served _in_ Vietnam, or to Vietnamese victims. Only those who served _outside_ of Vietnam's borders-- military bases in Thailand, airplane crews who transported Agent Orange, and those who tested, worked-with, or disposed Agent Orange in DoD testing in the US-- only their claims were recognised by the US govt.

By 1993-- of 39,419 soldiers who had sought disability from the VA-- only 486 were approved.

For the veterans of the secret extralegal wars fought in Laos and Cambodia-- and the local people affected by the 475,500 gallons of Agent Orange dropped in Laos and 40,900 gallons in Cambodia-- the US govt "has largely avoided compensating American veterans and CIA personnel stationed in Cambodia and Laos who suffered permanent injuries".

Since 1978, several lawsuits attempted to sue the chemical companies which produced Agent Orange-- for compensation. In 1984, just hours before jury-selection was to begin-- the companies agreed to settle out of court. The settlement was revealed in 1989:

"A totally disabled Vietnam veteran would receive a maximum of $12,000 spread out over the course of 10 years. Furthermore, by accepting the settlement payments, disabled veterans would become ineligible for many state benefits that provided far more monetary support than the settlement, such as food stamps, public assistance, and government pensions. A widow of a Vietnam veteran who died of Agent Orange exposure would receive $3,700."

That's not much. Many soldiers felt their lawyers had accepted a shitty deal to walk-away way an easy payday/not do the hard work to win a better deal.

None of this pertained to my dad. Until, within the last few years, he developed a specific type of liver cancer found almost-exclusively in Vietnam vets exposed to Agent Orange-- and people in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand-- where Agent Orange was used.

My dad's liver cancer would have been deadly, if not discovered in-time. Would have been very expensive to fight, without assistance.

By the time he got sick-- the govt had developed a loophole policy of "presumptive" conditions caused by Agent Orange. Under this policy-- the VA quietly rated my dad (and others like him) as qualifying for 100% Disability status... without actually admitting Agent Orange DID cause the cancer. A legal fiction to avoid legal culpability-- if they admitted guilt and were sued again. My dad recovered.

I have some symptoms associated with the children of vets who were exposed. I'm not one of the hideously deformed, retarded, died in childhood. Unless a heart deformity suddenly kills me someday-- I'll assume I got off easy/ or maybe entirely-- the symptoms due to other causes.
Who knows. Wouldn't be worth examining my entire genome, just to pinpoint blame.

I Don't Want A Dime Of Government Money. I Just Want Them To Leave Me Alone. They Aren't Making That Easy.

My dad & brother, my sister-in-law all have PhDs-- they got the jab. Their choice. They're gonna jab my 4 year old nephew, too. I wish they wouldn't. But not my call.

My GF has avoided being jabbed-- but if she has to choose between working Fashion Week/ or getting it... she'll get it.

Her sister got jabbed... had menstrual effects & other effects... nothing major. Until last week when an apparent fly-bite has triggered a massive immune over-reaction... a blister the size of an egg yolk/ keeps coming back. Swelling, bruises up & down her legs, sore arms. Her local clinic has never seen a case like this. Vax related? Who knows. There's a paper online about vax-effects being misdiagnosed as the same diagnosis they gave her. She doesn't want my input, so I don't give it.

Lsuoma & that german cunt... writing me off as a mere 'troll'... screwtape saying I'm committing "manslaughter at the Very Least"... and I'm a Low IQ burden on society/ better if culled.

Those words only illuminate their character, not mine.

This isn't a one-sided dispute between The Good Science People vs. the Worthless Wrong Deplorables.

this rapper's dad was was a highly-decorated LRRP Green Beret.
his 2 siblings suffered severe birth defects from Agent Orange.
He's done a couple songs addressing it.
https://youtu.be/GL90ZmdjZrU?t=27
https://youtu.be/YV2Guv8l2FY?t=119

Steersman
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#248

Post by Steersman »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Steersman wrote: You bother to follow the link provided? It’s right there at the top, one of the columns for all countries, America included: 530 million Americans tested.
There's only 330 million of us.
Yeah, I know. That’s why I said:
... you probably have a point that many people are getting retested, but even assuming the average is three that would appear to mean that some 180 million separate Americans have been tested.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
That last bit seems somewhat overly optimistic.
What makes it overly optimistic?
Your estimate - presumably - of 75% who've been exposed to the virus or been vaccinated. Presumably, many of those who were tested are among the 50-odd percent who have now been vaccinated.

And the "Herd Immunity Threshold" ranges from 65% for the "ancestral" Covid variant to 80-90% for the Delta one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immu ... ical_basis
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
And your own calculations are based on a substantial percentage of the population being vaccinated which, if you had had your way, probably would not have been the case.
I think everyone fat, diabetic, or over age 65 should get vaccinated. If I'd been in charge, at the outset we would've quarantined and protected the truly vulnerable while letting everyone else go about their lives. And we would've reached herd immunity last Summer.
That might have worked. Some evidence that only some 5% of the number of deaths are in cases with no comorbidities:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... orbidities

Though you will probably discount the source ... ;)

Still, that's some 30,000 dead. Not to mention answering the question of how many wind up with "long-covid" who don't have any of those comorbidities. And considering the fact that the vaccine wasn't available until about a year after the Wuhan outbreak

And one might suggest that those death ratios weren't really known or understood until relatively recently.
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
But I can’t help but get the impression – which you’re not doing much to dispel – that you’re fellow-travelers with far too many of those on the right, in particular, for whom “skepticism of the press and of academic experts has been a paramount fetish”
I tend to be skeptical of people who repeatedly lie to me.
No doubt. Lying seems to be rather characteristic of many if not most politicians and political parties, particularly these days. Just finishing up Fantasyland and the author quotes Arendt:
The essential conviction shared by all ranks in a totalitarian movement, from fellow-traveler to leader, is that politics is a game of cheating. ....

A mixture of gullibility and cynicism has been an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality before it became an everyday phenomenon of the masses. In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true ....
Trump may have had trump - so to speak - on that score, but it's not as if it was unheard of or beyond the pale in either party. And "talk-radio" on both sides of the fence, though probably more so on the right, was likewise if not substantially worse.

But the problem there is that that behaviour has meant, as Arendt and other Fantasyland sources suggest, that far too many of us are far too quick to discount brute facts and valid scientific premises, largely because they haven't a clue what qualifies as either, because they're basing their "opinions" on untenable premises, on what feels good instead of what's actually true. And, not to belabour the point or flog a horse to death ... ;) , a rather important one of those scientific premises is the biological definition for the sexes by which to have a sex is to have functional gonads.

Sagan wasn't just whistling Dixie when he talked about "clutching our crystals, and unable to distinguish between what feels good and what is actually "true":

DemonHauntedWorld_Sagan_FeelsGood_1A.jpg
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Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Somewhat surprising in a way as I seem to recollect that you were one of those most vocal and largely justified in, I will somewhat belatedly more or less concede, your criticisms of Trump prior to the 2016 election.
Trump was, is, and shall always be a piece of human trash. He was grossly incompetent as POTUS. But I liked much of his admin's policy. And I love how he gives the lefties apoplexy.
Won't get much of an argument from me on that score. Though, as I've periodically argued, he's drawn attention - inadvertently or not – to some serious "systemic" flaws, if not fatal ones. Haven't seen much evidence of anyone on either side trying to address those.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#249

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Steersman wrote:
Your estimate - presumably - of 75% who've been exposed to the virus or been vaccinated. Presumably, many of those who were tested are among the 50-odd percent who have now been vaccinated.

And the "Herd Immunity Threshold" ranges from 65% for the "ancestral" Covid variant to 80-90% for the Delta one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immu ... ical_basis
Wiki gone woke - unreliable source. All indications are, we reached herd immunity some time ago.


Not to mention answering the question of how many wind up with "long-covid" who don't have any of those comorbidities.
'Long' covid is like 'chronic' Lyme disease: fake diagnosis of a fake disease.

And one might suggest that those death ratios weren't really known or understood until relatively recently.
One would be full of shit.
far too many of us are far too quick to discount brute facts and valid scientific premises, largely because they haven't a clue what qualifies as either,
I do.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#250

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Service Dog wrote: Her sister got jabbed... had menstrual effects & other effects... nothing major.
Telling young women, especially pregnant women, there's nothing to worry about, you'll be fine, you can trust us when the vax was never tested on their demographic, is criminal.

Until last week when an apparent fly-bite has triggered a massive immune over-reaction... a blister the size of an egg yolk/ keeps coming back. Swelling, bruises up & down her legs, sore arms. Her local clinic has never seen a case like this.
And yeah, I'm out. A sting from the wrong species of wasp can kill me, without super-sizing the risk with this fucking experimental treatment -- that was created using the genome data provided by the ChiComs.

Anybody who tries to force me to get the shot is getting shot first.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#251

Post by Steersman »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Your estimate - presumably - of 75% who've been exposed to the virus or been vaccinated. Presumably, many of those who were tested are among the 50-odd percent who have now been vaccinated.

And the "Herd Immunity Threshold" ranges from 65% for the "ancestral" Covid variant to 80-90% for the Delta one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immu ... ical_basis
Wiki gone woke - unreliable source.
Certainly some "woke-ish" articles, but, generally speaking, Wikipedia - The People's Encylcopedia - is as reliable as Britannica, the gold standard:

https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-a ... pedia.html
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: All indications are, we reached herd immunity some time ago.
And your evidence for that is what?
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Not to mention answering the question of how many wind up with "long-covid" who don't have any of those comorbidities.
'Long' covid is like 'chronic' Lyme disease: fake diagnosis of a fake disease.
I'm sure with your PhD in biology that you'll have no trouble getting the Mayo Clinic and The Lancet, among others, to see the errors of their ways:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20490351

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ecli ... 6/fulltext
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
And one might suggest that those death ratios weren't really known or understood until relatively recently.
One would be full of shit.
I could probably stand to be corrected on that point ...
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
far too many of us are far too quick to discount brute facts and valid scientific premises, largely because they haven't a clue what qualifies as either,
I do.
No evidence of that at all; quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.

Do you accept the rather common lexical defintions - top of the list in a Google search, "promulgated" by OED, Lexico, Merriam-Webster et al - which are endorsed by a number of credible biologists as stipulative biological definitions, that state that to have a sex is to be able to produce sperm or ova for reproduction?

Oxford_Definitions_SexCategoryMaleFemale1A.jpg
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Aeon_Griffiths_ExistenceOfSex_2B.jpg
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Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#252

Post by Service Dog »

Steersman wrote: Certainly some "woke-ish" articles, but, generally speaking, Wikipedia - The People's Encylcopedia - is as reliable as Britannica, the gold standard:

https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-a ... pedia.html
Let's click on that link.



Link to a 2011 article, which cites a 2005 study-- of Wikipedia's accuracy. :lol: :clap:


Here's something funny: if you go to Wikipedia and look-up the entry for: "Wikipedia", you'll find that 2005 study...

Even if you accept the study-- Wikipedia science articles contain 4 errors for every 3 errors in Britannica.

But Wikipedia admits Even That is cherry-picked in Wikipedia's favor:



A few paragraphs later, the entry describes Wikipedia's vulnerability to paid foreign agents planting false information without disclosing the the conflict of interest between objectivity & their secret agenda.

But Tucker Carlson has something Way More Interesting to say about that.

Namely: Wikipedia is as reliable as THE NEW YORK TIMES !


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#253

Post by Steersman »

Service Dog wrote:
Steersman wrote: Certainly some "woke-ish" articles, but, generally speaking, Wikipedia - The People's Encylcopedia - is as reliable as Britannica, the gold standard:

https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-a ... pedia.html
Let's click on that link.

Link to a 2011 article, which cites a 2005 study-- of Wikipedia's accuracy. ....

Here's something funny: if you go to Wikipedia and look-up the entry for: "Wikipedia", you'll find that 2005 study...

Even if you accept the study-- Wikipedia science articles contain 4 errors for every 3 errors in Britannica.

But Wikipedia admits Even That is cherry-picked in Wikipedia's favor:

A few paragraphs later, the entry describes Wikipedia's vulnerability to paid foreign agents planting false information without disclosing the the conflict of interest between objectivity & their secret agenda. ....
Glad to see you doing a bit of due diligence ... ;)

But your argument, such as it is, is that we should look the proverbial gift-horse in the mouth? :think: :roll:

You might check out another Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_i ... my_of_good
Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien
Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

(In his writings, a wise Italian
says that the best is the enemy of the good)
So fucking what if Wikipedia has 4 errors to Britannica's 3? Generally speaking, most of the articles are fairly accurate and there are a great many source citations so people can check those - the Herd Immunity one I quoted earlier has over a hundred of them. You or Matt prepared to track those down and show how Wikipedia is seriously in error?

Consider from the Wikipedia article:
Another study published in 2014 in PLOS ONE found that Wikipedia's information about pharmacology was 99.7% accurate when compared to a pharmacology textbook, and that the completeness of such information on Wikipedia was 83.8%. The study also determined that completeness of these Wikipedia articles was lowest (68%) in the category "pharmacokinetics" and highest (91.3%) in the category "indication". The authors concluded that "Wikipedia is an accurate and comprehensive source of drug-related information for undergraduate medical education".
And the Abstract at a 2019 NCBI article:
Wikipedia is by far the largest online encyclopedia, and the number of errors it contains is on par with the professional sources even in specialized topics such as biology or medicine. Yet, the academic world is still treating it with great skepticism because of the types of inaccuracies present there, the widespread plagiarism from Wikipedia, and historic biases, as well as jealousy regarding the loss of the knowledge dissemination monopoly. This article argues that it is high time not only to acknowledge Wikipedia's quality but also to start actively promoting its use and development in academia.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6889752/

But that's part and parcel about what I was getting at earlier - you and far too many others apparently haven't a clue about how science works so think that because some sources are less than perfect that means none of them are any good at all. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater, about shooting yourselves in the feet.

Sure there are problems with Wikipedia - more than a few articles exhibit some rot due to gender ideology for example. Which I have my sights on. But it's fairly accurate and readily accessible without the constraints of subscription services like Britannica - basically free, paid for by many people like me; paid a $100 (Canadian) just recently which I do once or twice a year. I'm a little bit "disconcerted" at some of the biases there but it's worth trying to accentuate the positives while trying to eliminate the negatives.
Service Dog wrote: But Tucker Carlson has something Way More Interesting to say about that.

Namely: Wikipedia is as reliable as THE NEW YORK TIMES !
:roll: So because NYT has been caught with their hands in the cookie jar then that means we should burn it and Wikipedia to the ground? Exhibiting that "mixture of gullibility and cynicism [that's] an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality" that I earlier quoted Arendt talking about.

But they're not at all the same kettles of fish for one thing - NYT is in the business of making money, that's its bottom line, it couldn't survive if it didn't. Wikipedia, while still needing funds - for servers mostly, has a different "business model" - it's basically a charity, it relies on donations from people like me and probably millions of others; it's not relying on advertising revenue. Rather different "tunes" being called for in both cases.

Though it's an interesting, and commendable, bit of investigate journalism on the part of Carlson and Fox News. No shortage of rot through the whole system - Trump - and Covid - may have been a bit of an "ill wind", but it's rare that they don't blow some good.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#254

Post by Service Dog »

I enjoyed a recent episode of School Sucks Podcast. The guest was Scott Hambrick-- founder of Online Great Books-- which organizes reading groups to study the Classics of Western Civilization-- using tools such-as the Socratic Method; and Mortimer J. Adler's critical thinking guide: "How To Read A Book".

The episode was dedicated to a 2021 New York Times opinion piece, titled:
"Don’t Go Down the Rabbit Hole
Critical thinking, as we’re taught to do it, isn’t helping in the fight against misinformation."


https://web.archive.org/web/20210218102 ... ntion.html

The School Sucks guys note that this 'opinion' piece is formatted to resemble a factual news piece.

Sources with expert-sounding titles are cited, but their quotes are loose, rhetorical conclusions; not a summary of how they arrived at those conclusions.

The writing flatters the reader, that they are a Busy Intelligent Important person-- whose time is valuable-- and who will surely adopt the lastest, fashionable Time-Saving device: Gettting Rid Of Critical Thinking. Replacing it with The Method That The Professional Fact-Checkers Use. :lol:

George Orwell wrote about this method. He called it 'crimestop':
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
But don't take my word for it. "SIFT"

1. Stop. :rimshot:

2. Investigate the source.

3. Find better coverage.

4. Trace claims, quotes and media to the original context.

Here's the example which the titled-expert and the New York Times provide:
Otherwise known as SIFT.

Mr. Caulfield walked me through the process using an Instagram post from Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent anti-vaccine activist, falsely alleging a link between the human papillomavirus vaccine and cancer. “If this is not a claim where I have a depth of understanding, then I want to stop for a second and, before going further, just investigate the source,” Mr. Caulfield said. He copied Mr. Kennedy’s name in the Instagram post and popped it into Google. “Look how fast this is,” he told me as he counted the seconds out loud. In 15 seconds, he navigated to Wikipedia and scrolled through the introductory section of the page, highlighting with his cursor the last sentence, which reads that Mr. Kennedy is an anti-vaccine activist and a conspiracy theorist.

“Is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. the best, unbiased source on information about a vaccine? I’d argue no. And that’s good enough to know we should probably just move on,” he said.

Here's the School Sucks episode: https://schoolsucksproject.com/new-york ... dcast-722/


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#256

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Steersman wrote: But your argument, such as it is, is that we should look the proverbial gift-horse in the mouth?
I do that for real.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#257

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Steersman wrote: But your argument, such as it is, is that we should look the proverbial gift-horse in the mouth?
I do that for real.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#258

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Service Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:24 pm
Steersman wrote: Certainly some "woke-ish" articles, but, generally speaking, Wikipedia - The People's Encylcopedia - is as reliable as Britannica, the gold standard:

https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-a ... pedia.html
Let's rather ask one of the the co-founders what he thinks.



One could do a Bear and roll out the old Tim Pool is a Trump bootlicking grifter ploy, but I'm quite willing to take Sanger's opinion whatever the Bear thinks of Pool. Steerz seemed to indicate up-thread somewhere that he thinks the MSM have some credibility left.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#259

Post by Service Dog »

Steersman wrote: https://youtu.be/CtOjn2g8Xkk?t=39
an interesting, and commendable, bit of investigate journalism on the part of Carlson and Fox News.
I'm glad you agree.

And now, my turn to agree with you:
Steersman wrote: NYT is in the business of making money... Wikipedia...has a different "business model"
Your opinion is quite similar to this one:

"Wikipedia is best known and most useful not as a “business enterprise” but as a free resource and worldwide non-profit community, the most relevant sense of foundership is not the business sense but the community sense."

That's Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger-- from a section of his website titled: "My role in Wikipedia".

Mr. Sanger makes the case that ~he~ was the founder of the aspect-of-wikipedia which you highlight. And Jimmy Wales-- more widely acknowledged as the 'founder' of Wikipedia-- is merely the founder of the 'business enterprise'... which you correctly downplay.

The "My role in Wikipedia" section is worth reading. Please note that Larry Sanger's crucial involvement in Wikipedia was during the pre-2005 heyday which you-yourself lauded. https://larrysanger.org/role-in-wikiped ... dia-links/

Why must Larry Sanger defend his claim to Wikipedia? Because in 2020 and 2021... Sanger emerged as a prominent critic of Wikipedia.
It's not 2005 or 2011 anymore.

Wikipedia Is Badly Biased
MAY 14, 2020| BY LARRY SANGER
"Wikipedia’s “NPOV” is dead.1 The original policy long since forgotten, Wikipedia no longer has an effective neutrality policy. There is a rewritten policy, but it endorses the utterly bankrupt canard that journalists should avoid what they call “false balance.”2 The notion that we should avoid “false balance” is directly contradictory to the original neutrality policy. As a result, even as journalists turn to opinion and activism, Wikipedia now touts controversial points of view on politics, religion, and science. Here are some examples from each of these subjects, which were easy to find, no hunting around. Many, many more could be given..."
https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikiped ... ly-biased/

Wikipedia Is More One-Sided Than Ever
JUNE 30, 2021|BY LARRY SANGER
https://larrysanger.org/2021/06/wikiped ... than-ever/


and, for what it's worth, although he makes the opposing case against-yours, Steersman... I think you'll find Larry Sanger writes in a 'voice' similar to your own, applying a standard of evidence similar to yours, remaining circumspect in his claims:

The Astonishing Hubris of a Global Experimental Vaccine
AUGUST 2, 2021|IN OTHER WEIRD STUFF, POLITICS|BY LARRY SANGER
https://larrysanger.org/2021/08/the-ast ... l-vaccine/

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#260

Post by Service Dog »

3fj :nin:

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#261

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Service Dog wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:04 am
I enjoyed a recent episode of School Sucks Podcast. The guest was Scott Hambrick-- founder of Online Great Books-- which organizes reading groups to study the Classics of Western Civilization-- using tools such-as the Socratic Method; and Mortimer J. Adler's critical thinking guide: "How To Read A Book".

The episode was dedicated to a 2021 New York Times opinion piece, titled:
"Don’t Go Down the Rabbit Hole
Critical thinking, as we’re taught to do it, isn’t helping in the fight against misinformation."


https://web.archive.org/web/20210218102 ... ntion.html

The School Sucks guys note that this 'opinion' piece is formatted to resemble a factual news piece.

Sources with expert-sounding titles are cited, but their quotes are loose, rhetorical conclusions; not a summary of how they arrived at those conclusions.

The writing flatters the reader, that they are a Busy Intelligent Important person-- whose time is valuable-- and who will surely adopt the lastest, fashionable Time-Saving device: Gettting Rid Of Critical Thinking. Replacing it with The Method That The Professional Fact-Checkers Use. :lol:

George Orwell wrote about this method. He called it 'crimestop':
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
But don't take my word for it. "SIFT"

1. Stop. :rimshot:

2. Investigate the source.

3. Find better coverage.

4. Trace claims, quotes and media to the original context.

Here's the example which the titled-expert and the New York Times provide:
Otherwise known as SIFT.

Mr. Caulfield walked me through the process using an Instagram post from Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent anti-vaccine activist, falsely alleging a link between the human papillomavirus vaccine and cancer. “If this is not a claim where I have a depth of understanding, then I want to stop for a second and, before going further, just investigate the source,” Mr. Caulfield said. He copied Mr. Kennedy’s name in the Instagram post and popped it into Google. “Look how fast this is,” he told me as he counted the seconds out loud. In 15 seconds, he navigated to Wikipedia and scrolled through the introductory section of the page, highlighting with his cursor the last sentence, which reads that Mr. Kennedy is an anti-vaccine activist and a conspiracy theorist.

“Is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. the best, unbiased source on information about a vaccine? I’d argue no. And that’s good enough to know we should probably just move on,” he said.

Here's the School Sucks episode: https://schoolsucksproject.com/new-york ... dcast-722/
Goes hand in hand with the injection of Critical Theory into all corners and it's redefinition of words. The unwary won't realise that when they read the heretic's bio that ist, ism and phobe words don't mean what the dictionary says they mean. James Lindsay is useful reading for anyone considering taking on the woke, otherwise you are left vainly trying to counter ostensibly sensible quotes from CR literature without knowing exactly where the sleight of hand is. Vague suspicions and accusations will get you nowhere.

There is of course the don't give a fuck approach which can short circuit CR induced brain fog.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#262

Post by MarcusAu »

Has anyone been keeping up with Tim Pool & Stephen Crowder?





...though I'm sure some will consider this fake news..

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#263

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

MarcusAu wrote: Has anyone been keeping up with Tim Pool & Stephen Crowder?
Crowder should really focus on his 'prove me wrong' tables, and on becoming an investigative journalist. The comedy routine, with him shooting the breeze with his unfunny beta droogies, has no potential for audience growth. Their cheap shots on black farmers were deplorable.

He should also just get it over with and come out.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#264

Post by Service Dog »

I don't disagree with that YouTuber-- New York Nadia-- but I was wary of her demeanor. My first-impression was: "this person is just telling me what she thinks I want to her, for attention."

And maybe that's not-even a problem. The Alok Menon video informed me about something I didn't know. In 1min23sec, rather than belaboring it past 10 mins-- to maximize YouTube elgibility for ad revenue. On the other hand-- if she's just repackaging other sources' stories-- she's echo-chamber dead weight.

I clicked on her channel & saw she was a wannabee-actress. Which reminded me of Jamie Kilstein: the unfunny would-be comedian/ who could only generate applause by saying Vegan and Feminist and Bernie-Sanders applause-lines. Until addiction to that cheap attention ate his life.

I'm not posting to shit on her. I'm heading toward a different point. But this was the audition clip I watched. She doesn't enunciate well.
https://youtu.be/yD80y2c1y-g

3FJ-- you paired New York Nadia & James Lindsay in the same post. James Lindsay has all the depth I suspect she lacks. He also has _some_ ability to shift away from the endlessly-patient, reasonable, square 'straight man' role, if he's being clowned into a 'double act' by an SJW trickster. Lindsay will put-aside decorum and talk-shit in a vulgar way.

I wonder if New York Nadia has a reservoir of strength, in that department. It's good that she enunciates better in her face-the-camera political videos, than her acting attempts. But the flaw in her acting is that-- she has an authentic accent which garbles the Signal of her words into Noise. And that flaw-- could be an asset-- in the right circumstances. Her voice sounds like a lower-class new york person-- like many all-around me. And if some stranger is making sexual comments to her on the street-- or some ghetto whale starts bitching nonsense at her in line at the grocery store... then it's liability to only have 'one gear'-- the endlessly-long-fuse endlessly-troll-able square... endlessly getting punked by some loud clown. If Nadia raises her voice, crowds her words together, and makes no coherent sense... that's the correct amount of sanity such encounters deserve.

On the street, I often dress like I wandered out of an Insane Clown Posse concert. I don't get bothered for change by the beggars. And when I do, they take my unapologetic 'no' as final. Disreputable appearance... yields respect. Presumably, that works both-ways... I lose some normal credibility. Tho, these days, the Antifa Derelict look seems to Open All Doors. (Or, for an extreme example: the truly Insane Clown Alok Menon.)

Against the 'cathedral' of Big Brother Vaccination and Mandatory BLM/CRT and academic/media/intelligensia virtue-signalling... I think it's a losing hand to try to beat them at the game of respectability. Like a street kid trying to pick a suit & tie to wear to court-- everyone else in the courtroom is more versed that idiom-- than him. I think their frumpy middle-class moral-scold 'respectability' is vulnerable to an ambidextrous high/low retaliation. But I've only-sporadically integrated my 'game' to include both. Even here on the pit-- it has been all too easy for prigs like Lsuoma, screwtape & that german-- to 'big time' me as beneath their haughty station. I haven't perfected my Bugs Bunny counterpunch.

Anyway-- the important part isn't about me or Nadia-- it's about whether the authoritarian cathedral is vulnerable to a vulgar opposition.


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#266

Post by Lsuoma »


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#267

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Lsuoma wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:15 am
Great article: https://ghionjournal.com/race-bamboozle/
So he doesn't like the CRT/BLM approach to blaming white people for black people's problems, he prefers slightly less toxic ways of doing the same. He quite likes the structural racism idea. In some sense structural racism is a term used to describe the existence of standards.

He comes up with gems like this.
The evil that was slavery was not designed and perpetuated by “white” people in toto but formulated by a minority of “white” people who made vast fortunes by turning humans into chattel.
Slavery was not formulated by white people at all. Black people and Arabs, along with everyone else, were very adept at turning people into chattel and were very happy when the Portuguese opened up a new market for their product.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#268

Post by Lsuoma »

McCloskeys get a pardon:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58083772

Not to be confused with Steve McCroskey:
mccroskey.png
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ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#269

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Lsuoma wrote: McCloskeys get a pardon:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58083772

Not to be confused with Steve McCroskey:

mccroskey.png
A nice example of BBC partisanship. Plenty of reference to George Floyd, "assault weapon" mentioned, trespassers referred to as protesters and the article is slanted to make the reader think the McCloskeys got pardoned through political pressure rather than them having been charged through political bias and pressure.

Article says this:
A complaint issued by St Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner said both had displayed their semi-automatic weapons "readily capable of lethal use, in an angry or threatening manner".
No mention of Kim Gardner's shenanigans or the prosecution's disassembly of the inoperable pistol to make it operable again and subsequent attempt to charge the McCloskey's with evidence tampering.

The BBC are sickeningly biased and they don't even seem to know. They believe their bias is just them being civilised. They know nothing about how conservatives think, why people vote for leaders like Trump, why they are regarded as partisan liars or why anyone would be against large scale immigration of the culturally alien. Their worldview is just reality in their minds and to quote some ex-BBC conservatives, they think anyone who doesn't think like them is just mad. Their treatment of Carl Benjamin when he was running for the EU parliament is an illustration of how they think. They didn't want to give him the opportunity to talk policy, they only wanted to keep him on the back foot asking him endlessly about his "sexist" tweet to a whiny feminist Labour female politician. They see themselves as the gatekeepers of British politics and culture.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#270

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Lsuoma wrote: McCloskeys get a pardon:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58083772

Not to be confused with Steve McCroskey:

mccroskey.png
Surely, you're joking.

Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#271

Post by Service Dog »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: McCloskeys....

St Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner
If you haven't seen this Matt Christiansen video-- (or you don't know about this colossal murder-case fuck-up)-- you gotta watch this.


ESPECIALLY if you think gun-toting Americans are NOT justified in arming themselves for personal defense/ because they should leave the crimefighting to the government professionals hired & trained for the task:


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#272

Post by Lsuoma »

Jeeps! Is everyone on a hair-trigger reaction right now?? This place is becoming really really crazy.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#273

Post by Lsuoma »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Lsuoma wrote: McCloskeys get a pardon:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58083772

Not to be confused with Steve McCroskey:

mccroskey.png
Surely, you're joking.
Just want to let you know - we're all counting on you!

Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#274

Post by Service Dog »

Lsuoma wrote: Jeeps! Is everyone on a hair-trigger reaction right now?? This place is becoming really really crazy.
https://media.patriots.win/post/7yRtwj0g.jpeg





August 4, 2021
Twitter Suspends Journalist Who Repeated CDC Fact on Vaccines: Silenced For Standing-up For Screwtape

The story included the line “Vaccines are not safe for everyone.” That line appears to have prompted Twitter to suspend his account despite the fact that some people have medical exemptions from the vaccine due to the high risk posed by preexisting medical conditions. Indeed, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states that some people cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons.

https://jonathanturley.org/2021/08/04/t ... -vaccines/


CONFIRMED: JOE BIDEN PINCHED THAT LITTLE GIRL'S NIPPLE. GIRL FEARS LOSING FRIENDS AND ANGERING PEOPLE IF SHE TELLS THE TRUTH

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-con ... nipple.jpg

"We’ve received a lot of emails regarding this article. A lot of people believe that the screenshots are fake and no such account exist. However, upon doing some digging we can, in fact confirm, that the senator’s niece did own this account. Shortly after the news went viral she deactivated her Instagram and TikTok account."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 ... ple-metoo/

St. Louis County Health Director Dr. Faisal Khan Caught in Hate Hoax:

Accused Anti-Maskers of Shouting Racial Slurs and Shoving Him — Video Proves He Lied[/b]

"He was invited on MSNBC to tell his story." "On Monday St. Louis County released a surveillance video of Dr. Khan leaving the building. You can clearly see in the video — there was no shoving and there was no shouting racial slurs at Dr. Khan as he left the building.
It was all a lie." "In fact, it was Dr. Faisal Khan who flipped off the crowd at the meeting.

The officer who escorted the doctor out of the room is willing to testify against liar Dr. Khan."


Dr. Khan claims to "fear for his safety".

AndrewV69
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#275

Post by AndrewV69 »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
zou3gou3 wrote: I did and will. Couldn't resist pointing out the quality of the sources that Matt trusts.
Du kannst mich mal ....
:o :o :o
You say this to a running dog?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Brive1987
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#276

Post by Brive1987 »

Likely to be a materially significant decision …. 🇨🇳


John D
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#277

Post by John D »

Haha... this guy is on acid for sure. Thanks for the linkie MarcusAu.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#278

Post by John D »

My wife had her on-line psych eval today to see if she qualifies for disability. She was asked who the president was and she said "ummmm ... is it Obama?... Obama... yep". When asked who the last president was she said "uummmmm.... ummm... Trump... I can remember that because I hated him." Then she was asked if she really thought Obama was president and she said... "well... I guess I don't know."

Yep... this is the person I sometimes have political arguments with. Haha.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#279

Post by Lsuoma »

Looks like there might be a chink in your armour...

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#280

Post by Steersman »

Lsuoma wrote: Looks like there might be a chink in your armour...
:)

https://media.giphy.com/media/6751A64NJkyCQ/giphy.gif

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#281

Post by Steersman »

Service Dog wrote: I enjoyed a recent episode of School Sucks Podcast. The guest was Scott Hambrick-- founder of Online Great Books-- which organizes reading groups to study the Classics of Western Civilization-- using tools such-as the Socratic Method; and Mortimer J. Adler's critical thinking guide: "How To Read A Book".
Adler's book was recently on the Internet Archive but has apparently been deleted for copyright reasons; I should have grabbed a copy when it was still there rather than just bookmarking it:

https://archive.org/details/HowToReadABook1972
Service Dog wrote: The episode was dedicated to a 2021 New York Times opinion piece, titled:
"Don’t Go Down the Rabbit Hole
Critical thinking, as we’re taught to do it, isn’t helping in the fight against misinformation."


https://web.archive.org/web/20210218102 ... ntion.html

The School Sucks guys note that this 'opinion' piece is formatted to resemble a factual news piece.

Sources with expert-sounding titles are cited, but their quotes are loose, rhetorical conclusions; not a summary of how they arrived at those conclusions.
Moot. Even the NYT article argues the method has its limitations:
SIFT has its limits. It’s designed for casual news consumers, not experts or those attempting to do deep research. A reporter working on an investigative story or trying to synthesize complex information will have to go deep.
Clearly there's a problem with information overload - sipping from the firehose as an old computer magazine suggested. Whatever algorithm we use to filter the signal from the noise won't work in all cases. Rather disconcerting to realize that we're all susceptible to missing facts or taking as facts what aren't. One of the benefits of a scientific perspective by which all theories are provisional, contingent on new facts coming down the pike that call them into question:

Quotes_Huxley_UglyFacts_1B.jpg
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Service Dog wrote: The writing flatters the reader, that they are a Busy Intelligent Important person-- whose time is valuable-- and who will surely adopt the lastest, fashionable Time-Saving device: Gettting Rid Of Critical Thinking. Replacing it with The Method That The Professional Fact-Checkers Use. :lol:
:) "Act Now! Offer Ends Soon!" ;)
Service Dog wrote: George Orwell wrote about this method. He called it 'crimestop':
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
That "faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought" is a rather cogent observation, and particularly ubiquitous these days. For instance, not to flog a dead horse or anything like that ..., but you, Matt, and screwtape - buddies, The Three Musketeers in the same boat at last ... ;) - might try entertaining the "dangerous thought" that many members of many sexually reproducing species are, in fact, actually sexless. A perfectly reasonable word, of some more or less venerable provenance, denoting a not inconceivable state of being "neither male nor female" ;)

Oxford_Definitions_Sexless_1A.jpg
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It's been rather remarkable the degree to which many people, including many ostensible biologists, react to that concept with outright horror, with what is little short of sharpened wooden stakes, holy water, silver bullets and crucifixes. "Stopping short" and "repelled by any thought leading in a heretical direction" have to qualify as understatements.
Bookmarked and site skimmed though didn't listen to the podcast - which, in general, I tend to shy away from. If there isn't a transcript then it's often not worth the time.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#282

Post by Steersman »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Steersman wrote: But your argument, such as it is, is that we should look the proverbial gift-horse in the mouth?
I do that for real.
Twice to be sure ... ;)

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#283

Post by Steersman »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Service Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:24 pm
Steersman wrote: Certainly some "woke-ish" articles, but, generally speaking, Wikipedia - The People's Encylcopedia - is as reliable as Britannica, the gold standard:

https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-a ... pedia.html
Let's rather ask one of the the co-founders what he thinks.

youtube.com/watch?v=R_ygjNVFDMM

One could do a Bear and roll out the old Tim Pool is a Trump bootlicking grifter ploy ....
"do a Bear"? Abear?
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: ..., but I'm quite willing to take Sanger's opinion whatever the Bear thinks of Pool. Steerz seemed to indicate up-thread somewhere that he thinks the MSM have some credibility left.
Interesting that Sanger argues that Wikipedia ain't hurting for money - wonder where that comes from; think Sanger said something about an endowment.

But as long as "the MSM" are reporting on factual events - particularly where there are videos that many sites echo - then not unreasonable to argue they provide a useful service. Just looked at a Reuter's page that linked to a CDC page on corona:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN2AM0SS

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... /mrna.html

One can, maybe, quibble about the CDC's description of how mRNA vaccines work and any stated or unstated problems with that process. But it's a fact that that is what the CDC have said.

And Reuters seem to have provided some justification for the view that one "Dr David Martin” is a bit of a nutcase.

Kinda think you're engaging in some "four legs good, two legs bad", in some tarring all for the sins of the few, when it comes to the MSM ...

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#284

Post by Steersman »

Service Dog wrote:
Steersman wrote: https://youtu.be/CtOjn2g8Xkk?t=39
an interesting, and commendable, bit of investigate journalism on the part of Carlson and Fox News.
I'm glad you agree.

And now, my turn to agree with you: ...
The beginning of a beautiful friendship ... ;)

But thanks for the Sanger links - interesting bit of reading though I should have maybe used the SIFT method ... ;)

Sanger makes some good points, and it's interesting his examples of Wikipedia being one-sided. Many if not most of which are related to politics.

However, I'm not really sure that his "neutral point of view" is not without a few problematic aspects. For instance, a case related to gender ideology claptrap, specifically the definition for woman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

In the first case, they "endorse" the definition of "woman" as "adult human female", yet in the second they "endorse" the definition by which "woman" boils down into the range - AKA, spectrum - of personalities, behaviours, and stereotypes that are more or less typical of adult human females.

Causes no end of confusion, is a pretext for equivocation, intentional or inadvertent, that seriously muddies the waters. Many scientific theories conflict with each other, but most discussions of them point to alternatives; might be useful if Wikipedia did likewise in more clearly differentiating between sex and gender.

In any case, Sanger links for posterity:

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#285

Post by Service Dog »

John D wrote: she said... "well... I guess I don't know."
Correct answer!

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#286

Post by Service Dog »

Steersman wrote: ...not to flog a dead horse or anything like that ... but you.... might try entertaining the "dangerous thought" that many members of many sexually reproducing species are, in fact, actually sexless.
I'd prefer you stop crusading at me. I'm already converted. I do seriously think you are the Singularity at the end of Judith Butler, gender studies, intersectional feminism. They are all obsolete. They opened Pandora's Box-- and after the cascade of half-lifes degraded-- you are the heat death of their universe. Thesis --> antithesis --> synthesis --> Steersman. End of the line.

It's not a debate if my side says 'Congratulations: you win!' After that-- you're just posting SPAM.

Save it for someone who doesn't agree with you.

(But I'm still gonna talk however I wanna talk in everyday conversation. You're only the Undisputed Intergender World Heavyweight Champion-- INSIDE the Large Hadron Gender Collider in Morris Minnesota. https://archive.is/QAlco )

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#287

Post by Keating »

Brive1987 wrote: Likely to be a materially significant decision …. 🇨🇳

All the better to prevent you from leaving your house

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#288

Post by Keating »

Lsuoma wrote: Jeeps! Is everyone on a hair-trigger reaction right now?? This place is becoming really really crazy.
I'm certainly feeling whiplash after 4 years of FaScIsM!!!!! only to be told that being asked for papers to buy a loaf of bread is perfectly reasonable.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#289

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Looks like the rule of law and that much vaunted system of checks and balances is in a coma in the US. SC, who are they, just a bunch of right wingers, can't let them derail the course of Social Justice. Congress, what's that, Nancy's bitch!

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#290

Post by Service Dog »

Keating wrote: I'm certainly feeling whiplash after 4 years of FaScIsM!!!!! only to be told that being asked for papers to buy a loaf of bread is perfectly reasonable.

NYC Mayor on Freedom: "I want people who get vaccinated to live life fully. To have a lot of freedom. The reward of vaccination is freedom. Tragically, if you don't get vaccinated. you're gonna get left out." (at video timecode: 4min15sec)


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#291

Post by Service Dog »

Keating wrote: I'm certainly feeling whiplash after 4 years of FaScIsM!!!!! only to be told that being asked for papers to buy a loaf of bread is perfectly reasonable.
Twitter will save us. The term 'Third Reich' is trending today, & featured in their 'What's Happening' sidebar.

Let's see what they're concerned about:


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#292

Post by Bhurzum »

I'm not jabbed - I have my reasons - and god help the poor fucker tasked with jabbing me against my will.

That is all.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#293

Post by Lsuoma »

Steersman wrote:
Lsuoma wrote: Looks like there might be a chink in your armour...
:)

https://media.giphy.com/media/6751A64NJkyCQ/giphy.gif
Don't you mean

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances ... lacist.jpg

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#294

Post by Lsuoma »

Steersman wrote:
Service Dog wrote: George Orwell wrote about this method. He called it 'crimestop':
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
That "faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought" is a rather cogent observation, and particularly ubiquitous these days. For instance, not to flog a dead horse or anything like that ..., but you, Matt, and screwtape - buddies, The Three Musketeers in the same boat at last ... ;) - might try entertaining the "dangerous thought" that many members of many sexually reproducing species are, in fact, actually sexless. A perfectly reasonable word, of some more or less venerable provenance, denoting a not inconceivable state of being "neither male nor female" ;)
I think you mean 3FJ, not Screwy...

Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

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Post by Service Dog »

Lsuoma wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Service Dog wrote: George Orwell wrote about this method. He called it 'crimestop':
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
That "faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought" is a rather cogent observation, and particularly ubiquitous these days. For instance, not to flog a dead horse or anything like that ..., but you, Matt, and screwtape - buddies, The Three Musketeers in the same boat at last ... ;) - might try entertaining the "dangerous thought" that many members of many sexually reproducing species are, in fact, actually sexless. A perfectly reasonable word, of some more or less venerable provenance, denoting a not inconceivable state of being "neither male nor female" ;)
I think you mean 3FJ, not Screwy...
...says Lsuoma who uses 'Ignore' to hide from opposing thought, in defense of screwtape who uses 'Ignore' to do same.


This is the sort of copy-editing Winston Smith did at the Ministry of Truth.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#296

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John D wrote: She was asked who the president was and she said "ummmm ... is it Obama?... Obama... yep".
What a coincidence -- Joe Biden answered the same way.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

#297

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Service Dog wrote:
Keating wrote: I'm certainly feeling whiplash after 4 years of FaScIsM!!!!! only to be told that being asked for papers to buy a loaf of bread is perfectly reasonable.

NYC Mayor on Freedom: "I want people who get vaccinated to live life fully. To have a lot of freedom. The reward of vaccination is freedom. Tragically, if you don't get vaccinated. you're gonna get left out." (at video timecode: 4min15sec)
I took a YouGov survey on vax passports, etc. YG shows a running total of responses as you go. YG respondents skew heavily affluent metro. Most were strongly against cash or other incentives for getting the vax, but hugely in favor of special privileges for the already vaccinated, along with severe social punishments for the holdouts.

For some time now, the bi-coastal, metro, 'creative class' elite have considered themselves morally and intellectually superior -- and thus more deserving -- than the bitter clinger, flyover lumpenproles with their antiquated ideas of individual freedom and personal responsibility. The Forever Pandemic provided the opportunity to establish both the collectivist conformity and the caste system they'd always dreamed of.

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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

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Post by Service Dog »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: the caste system they'd always dreamed of.
What could go wrong? I mean-- take screwtape, for example.

How does Mayor de Blasio's 'Key to the City Pass' program accommodate someone with a very real life-and-death medical condition, so they can keep an "indoor" job?


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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

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Post by Service Dog »


Service Dog
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Re: Steerzing in a New Direction...

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Post by Service Dog »

:cdc:

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