Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[ERV]

This past Thursday Seth made some videos of us here in OK (me, Caleb, the pres of OKC Atheists Red)-- Here are Calebs!

THEYRE SO GOOD!

Mine wasnt that good at ALL. Im so nervous now, what Seth is going to make of it :(

[EdwardGemmer]

See, the problem is that women are underrepresented in fields like science and medicine. Clearly, the solution is to belittle women who want to or have been in these fields as just wanting to be one of the guys. That way, everyone is wrong!

We can also just ignore the possibility some women, perhaps have no interest in those fields, and might even resent being "pushed" in that direction by women who have shown no interest in getting into those fields either.

I dunno?

Perhaps we can ask our resident engineer who, just happens to be a woman, and apparently a PoPR (Person of Puerto Rico) how many PotFP (Person of the Female Persuasion) AKA girly girls, were apparently interested, or at least did not shun her for this interest when she was growing in the bucolic savannas of her island nation.

Well, according to FtB women fall into the following fields:

1. Women who aren't in those fields and aren't offended or interested (chill girls)
2. Women who are in the fields and aren't doing enough to help other women (queen bees, Harriet Hall, people with jobs)
3. Women who help the world by insulting other women on the internet (FtB)

[codelette]

Perhaps we can ask our resident engineer who, just happens to be a woman, and apparently a PoPR (Person of Puerto Rico) how many PotFP (Person of the Female Persuasion) AKA girly girls, were apparently interested, or at least did not shun her for this interest when she was growing in the bucolic savannas of her island nation.

When I went to school (back in the mid to late nineties), I daresay half of the Engineering department were females. However, the fields were divided this way:
Electrical/Computer Engineering (mostly males) --> my degree, BTW
Mechanical Engineering (mostly male)
Chemical Engineering (mostly females)
Industrial Engineering (mostly females)
Civil Engineering (balanced)

In Puerto Rico (and I think the rest of Latin America, the Middle East and Asia) becoming an engineer is a prestigious career. There is no beef -at least in Puerto Rico- between exhibiting an extremely feminine appearance and people thinking that one was a ditz or an idiot. So plenty or girly girls (myself included*) actually pursued and excelled at acquiring STEM degrees. We had various Miss Puerto Ricos (and there are various Miss Venezuelas and Miss Mexicos) that were either engineering students or engineering graduates. To summarize, the girly girls and the burly boys went together to school and as long as you were pulling your weight during class projects; nobody gave a shit about what was between your legs.

http://i.imgur.com/3iFAdEx.png
*me, engineer of the girly-girl type circa 2003

More fun with beauty and STEM. Go to the following link and ctrl-find the term "Inge" (that's for Engineering). That's how many beauty queens + engineer combos, Venezuela had in 2003: http://www.bellezavenezolana.net/missve ... /datos.htm

[Gumby]

Speaking strictly as a completely non-misogynistic and politically correct social justice warrior, your pic just made me pop a boner, codelette.

:lol:

[Apples]

Interesting minor flap/update to Ophie's uglies vs. pretties post from a few months back:

Ophie plays nice when called out by Soggymog:

http://musingsbysoggymog.blogspot.co.uk ... inion.html

The Twitter exchange:

[EdwardGemmer]

Perhaps we can ask our resident engineer who, just happens to be a woman, and apparently a PoPR (Person of Puerto Rico) how many PotFP (Person of the Female Persuasion) AKA girly girls, were apparently interested, or at least did not shun her for this interest when she was growing in the bucolic savannas of her island nation.

When I went to school (back in the mid to late nineties), I daresay half of the Engineering department were females. However, the fields were divided this way:
Electrical/Computer Engineering (mostly males) --> my degree, BTW
Mechanical Engineering (mostly male)
Chemical Engineering (mostly females)
Industrial Engineering (mostly females)
Civil Engineering (balanced)

In Puerto Rico (and I think the rest of Latin America, the Middle East and Asia) becoming an engineer is a prestigious career. There is no beef -at least in Puerto Rico- between exhibiting an extremely feminine appearance and people thinking that one was a ditz or an idiot. So plenty or girly girls (myself included*) actually pursued and excelled at acquiring STEM degrees. We had various Miss Puerto Ricos (and there are various Miss Venezuelas and Miss Mexicos) that were either engineering students or engineering graduates. To summarize, the girly girls and the burly boys went together to school and as long as you were pulling your weight during class projects; nobody gave a shit about what was between your legs.

http://i.imgur.com/3iFAdEx.png
*me, engineer of the girly-girl type circa 2003

More fun with beauty and STEM. Go to the following link and ctrl-find the term "Inge" (that's for Engineering). That's how many beauty queens + engineer combos, Venezuela had in 2003: http://www.bellezavenezolana.net/missve ... /datos.htm

I would never objectify you by telling you how great that shirt looks.

[JAB]

After pretty much catching up on 5 pages of stuff, I wanted to say hello to LadyChillax. Welcome to the den of iniquity. Where misogynists roam free and chill girls skip about scantily clothed (ok, that last bit was just wishful thinking on my part).

You need to get back to work making us a blog ;)

'Tis in the works. Had the podcast on Saturday followed by quality lazy time with my guy. Today I need to write a couple of articles. Then I'll be back on the business of a new blog network :D

Neat! Does the slymeblog have a name yet?

I've snagged http://atheismskepticism.com/ for this. Nothing going on with it at the moment, however.

I was hoping it would be The Hendricks Post

[mordacious1]

Does anyone remember when Bob Dole was running for president back in '96 and SNL was doing skits involving him? They portrayed him as some pathetic old guy, wearing a black raincoat, lurking in the rainy shadows of the night, crying out, "I'm Bob Dole... Bob Dole!". Lately, whenever I think of OB I put her in those skits, "I'm Ophelia Benson, Ophelia Benson! Damn you!". I think Norm McDonald would make a great Ophie, wonder if he's available for TAM.

[Submariner]

Speaking strictly as a completely non-misogynistic and politically correct social justice warrior, your pic just made me pop a boner, codelette.

:lol:

While I did not "pop a boner" it's only because (IMHO) I am much older and need a little foreplay first now.

[Dick Strawkins]

codelette, be careful, there are some terrible cads about. :?

http://i.imgur.com/3iFAdEx.png
*me, engineer of the girly-girl type circa 2003

http://i.imgur.com/523NNpL.jpg

:D

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

http://i.imgur.com/3iFAdEx.png
*me, engineer of the girly-girl type circa 2003

More fun with beauty and STEM. Go to the following link and ctrl-find the term "Inge" (that's for Engineering). That's how many beauty queens + engineer combos, Venezuela had in 2003: http://www.bellezavenezolana.net/missve ... /datos.htm

http://i.imgur.com/XGMkAWJ.jpg

[codelette]

As long as I don't get asked for coffee everything's fine. ;)
BTW, I always found this NatGeo opinion regarding displays of femininity in Puerto Rico very case in point. Please listen to "Feminine Strength" http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0 ... edia2.html

[Dick Strawkins]

If anyone hasn't seen rockos latest video don't miss it.
It's a musical!
[youtube]EDuesOr4De4[/youtube]

[Tigzy]

Man oh man...I'd love to be a fly on the wall should Ophie or Ellenbeth be watching the pit right now. :lol:

That said - not looking too shabby there, Codelette.

[Apples]

Comradde Physiopricke has done his latest post in his "book group" series in which he copies and pastes an entire chapter from Moby Dick (and attracts almost no comments). This is number 13 -- only 122 chapters to go.

[Dick Strawkins]

Man oh man...I'd love to be a fly on the wall should Ophie or Ellenbeth be watching the pit right now. :lol:

That said - not looking too shabby there, Codelette.

Leave Ellenbeth alone!

http://i.imgur.com/MgZYGxk.jpg

[Dick Strawkins]

Comradde Physiopricke has done his latest post in his "book group" series in which he copies and pastes an entire chapter from Moby Dick (and attracts almost no comments). This is number 13 -- only 122 chapters to go.

After that he's planning to tweet Finnegans Wake.

[Tigzy]

@Strawkins

She wears that look well, I reackon.

[Gumby]

Speaking strictly as a completely non-misogynistic and politically correct social justice warrior, your pic just made me pop a boner, codelette.

:lol:

While I did not "pop a boner" it's only because (IMHO) I am much older and need a little foreplay first now.

Thanks for sharing!

[justinvacula]

Hop in the chat and listen:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-pink-a ... sodes-27-1


Lee Moore: Talking about the ceasefire in Atheism

(Lee's views are not necisarrily the views of the Pink Atheist or its hosts)

Discussing the powerful women who started the atheist movement, and their contributions.

[SenorBeagle]

As long as I don't get asked for coffee everything's fine. ;)

Foul muck, you'll have tea and like it! :dance:

[Apples]

Discussing the powerful women who started the atheist movement, and their contributions.

Well, isn't that special. ;)

Like your sig.

[Dick Strawkins]

Hop in the chat and listen:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-pink-a ... sodes-27-1


Lee Moore: Talking about the ceasefire in Atheism

(Lee's views are not necisarrily the views of the Pink Atheist or its hosts)

Discussing the powerful women who started the atheist movement, and their contributions.

What ceasefire?

The only response from the FTB crowd has been to demand you accept their precondition of total surrender.
The only slight mercy offered is the possibility that your execution will be quick and painless.

[EdwardGemmer]

Hop in the chat and listen:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-pink-a ... sodes-27-1


Lee Moore: Talking about the ceasefire in Atheism

(Lee's views are not necisarrily the views of the Pink Atheist or its hosts)

Discussing the powerful women who started the atheist movement, and their contributions.

What ceasefire?

The only response from the FTB crowd has been to demand you accept their precondition of total surrender.
The only slight mercy offered is the possibility that your execution will be quick and painless.

Yeah it's only been a couple months since I even became aware there was an atheist fight on the internet, but a cease fire will never happen. There are people who make things very personal, and they aren't leaving and neither is anyone else. It's more about figuring out how to live with your crazy uncle down the street rather than any big war.

[Apples]

Speaking of brainy 'Pit hotties, Paula Wright has been posting a bit over on Strawkins' "Feminism - a skeptical approach' thread as 'DGS':

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=245

http://dispatchesfromtheclaphamomnibus.blogspot.co.uk/

[Tigzy]

Oh, I see Ellenbeth's tweets are now protected.

Guess she realised she's done the twitter equivalent of of making unsavoury noises too loudly. :lol:

[TheMudbrooker]

TAM 2013

partial list of speakers:

speakers.jpg

notice Russell Blackford is on the list, and no mention of Becky along with the others on the SGU:

"Two live tapings of Skeptics Guide to the Universe, featuring Dr. Steve Novella, Jay Novella, Bob Novella, and Evan Bernstein."

by 2015, TAM will be sponsored by the Slyme Pit.

better write that presentation for next year, Welch, Mykeru, and SkepTickle as well.

others on the Slyme Pit list can include:
Barn Owl
James Onen
Al Stefanelli (by the way, Al, I love my 1940's gangster look (see the end of this comment)

Andrew V69 can give a men's rights talk from a sceptic perspective, and Nectar can show why a true sceptic cannot also be a gender feminist, and another talk on radical feminism from an insiders perspective... perhaps there should be a panel for this... if Wooly Bumblebee and Girl Writes What commits, that would make four women on an MRA themed panel of five.

Abbie won't travel, but perhaps we can convince her to be the keynote speaker. I'm sure we can cover her expenses. She certainly has no shortage of topics to choose from.

I'd love to have MKG, Altair, and Rayshul, give a talk

I'm sure I am missing many who would be quite a valuable asset...

** submit your area of expertise along with the summary of your sceptically-themed talk for immediate review... **

the only thing I would change is to get rid of the necklace and put the WCoA logo on the side of the trim ribbon on my hat. (can one of you do that?)

1940's gangster.jpg

if "sacha" is somewhere in the body of the comment, I will see it, otherwise it will get lost. I've given up on trying to stay current here.

Sacha, put me down for the spot formerly occupied by Beccy, I have no scientific background or degrees (I make a living working in the hot sun and lifting heavy things) no particular talents and damned few original thoughts. That makes me at least as qualified as she is. But unlike Ms. Watson, I am told I have a nice speaking voice.

[AndrewV69]

Individuals of favored groups (the "oppressed") have every reason to distrust the motives of those wielding the noblesse oblige, and the disfavored "privileged" folks know for a fact that they're being judged unfairly. Lose-lose. That said, I'd like to hear you say more about how you see "gender feminism."

My bottom concerning "gender feminism" is pretty well summed up here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_an ... nism[quote]
In contrast to equity feminism, Sommers coined the term "Gender feminism" to describe what she contends is a gynocentric and misandric branch of feminism. Gender feminists typically criticize contemporary gender roles and aim to eliminate them altogether.[1]

Sommers argues that gender feminism characterizes most of the body of modern feminist theory, and is the prevailing ideology in academia. She argues that while the feminists she designates as gender feminists advocate preferential treatment and portraying "all women as victims", equity feminism provides a viable alternative form of feminism to those who object to elements of gender feminist ideology.[/quote]

(Sommers is Christina Hoff Sommers, author of Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women (Touchstone/Simon & Schuster, 1995))

I mentioned this before I think. The baboons have been from time to time accused of being RadFems, but I see them more as GenderFems.

This is a RadFem (separatist) in her natural habitat:
]
Radical feminism needs to examine heterosexuality the same way we do BDSM. Most radfems seem to agree that there can be no true consent in BDSM because of our patriarchal culture informing all of our decisions and preferences. BDSM is a hyper-aggressive sexually hierarchal microcosm of heterosexuality.

But we cannot stop the critical thinking there. It’s imperative that we view heterosexuality in similar terms. Heterosexuality and by proxy intercourse is harmful to women for a multitude of reasons, and learning that it is unavoidable is extremely harmful to girl children.

....

Heterosexuality is not feminist. It’s a method of keeping women unnecessarily bound to men to provide sex, free labour, and children to be indoctrinated into more of the same.[/quote]

As an aside, interesting things can happen when the RadFems and GenderFems agree. For example Catherine Anne MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_MacKinnon

MacKinnon, along with feminist activist Andrea Dworkin, has been active in reforming legal postures towards pornography, framing it as a form of sex discrimination and, more recently, a form of human trafficking.

I would not characterize either as harmless.

[Dick Strawkins]

Oh, I see Ellenbeth's tweets are now protected.

Guess she realised she's done the twitter equivalent of of making unsavoury noises too loudly. :lol:

I'm sure she's still glued to the slymepit.

Hey Ellenbeth!

http://i.imgur.com/SQFnRvL.jpg

Time for a cold shower? ;)

[Apples]

Oh, I see Ellenbeth's tweets are now protected.

Guess she realised she's done the twitter equivalent of of making unsavoury noises too loudly. :lol:

Smart move. She didn't do herself any favors yesterday. We'll see whether she just spends some time deleting the crazy and then re-emerges or whether it's a permanent thing.

[Steersman]

an addition to the companion animal photography meme:

hf%20003.jpg

Sacha, Jerry Coyne has a few videos of some amusing antics of some crows that I thought you might enjoy:

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com ... -thievery/

[Apples]

PZ would never stir up controversy and inflame deep rifts just for the blog-hits, right? Right?

http://i.imgur.com/dzXTYoy.png

Guess he's not familiar with freezepage.

[nippletwister]

What a douchenozzle.

http://i.imgur.com/Qu2JtOs.jpg

Lordy, get over yourself.

[Maximus]

See, the problem is that women are underrepresented in fields like science and medicine. Clearly, the solution is to belittle women who want to or have been in these fields as just wanting to be one of the guys. That way, everyone is wrong!

We can also just ignore the possibility some women, perhaps have no interest in those fields, and might even resent being "pushed" in that direction by women who have shown no interest in getting into those fields either.

I dunno?

Perhaps we can ask our resident engineer who, just happens to be a woman, and apparently a PoPR (Person of Puerto Rico) how many PotFP (Person of the Female Persuasion) AKA girly girls, were apparently interested, or at least did not shun her for this interest when she was growing in the bucolic savannas of her island nation.

Of all the women on 'their' side do any of them actually have any science background? I can't think of one. Yet I can think of a bunch of women that criticise FfTB/skepchic, who actually do have science backgrounds or work in male dominated fields... :think:

[AnotherLurkerMKII]

Comradde Physiopricke has done his latest post in his "book group" series in which he copies and pastes an entire chapter from Moby Dick (and attracts almost no comments). This is number 13 -- only 122 chapters to go.

So.. he didn't "improved" Moby Dick with some of that charming grammar of his?

"So, Mobye Dickee wasa whaleh..."

[Lsuoma]

PZ would never stir up controversy and inflame deep rifts just for the blog-hits, right? Right?

http://i.imgur.com/dzXTYoy.png

Guess he's not familiar with freezepage.

He's so desperately trying to make Pitters angry, and failing so badly. He's so cute when he does that...

[Dick Strawkins]

See, the problem is that women are underrepresented in fields like science and medicine. Clearly, the solution is to belittle women who want to or have been in these fields as just wanting to be one of the guys. That way, everyone is wrong!

We can also just ignore the possibility some women, perhaps have no interest in those fields, and might even resent being "pushed" in that direction by women who have shown no interest in getting into those fields either.

I dunno?

Perhaps we can ask our resident engineer who, just happens to be a woman, and apparently a PoPR (Person of Puerto Rico) how many PotFP (Person of the Female Persuasion) AKA girly girls, were apparently interested, or at least did not shun her for this interest when she was growing in the bucolic savannas of her island nation.

Of all the women on 'their' side do any of them actually have any science background? I can't think of one. Yet I can think of a bunch of women that criticise FfTB/skepchic, who actually do have science backgrounds or work in male dominated fields... :think:

Jen McCreight is doing a PhD in genomics of some sort.
But I agree, there are very few scientists - or indeed academics of any kind - amongst them.

[AndrewV69]

More fun with beauty and STEM. Go to the following link and ctrl-find the term "Inge" (that's for Engineering). That's how many beauty queens + engineer combos, Venezuela had in 2003: http://www.bellezavenezolana.net/missve ... /datos.htm

Oh, I would totally do you or any of them.

OK, I am going to lay this on the line. Get ready to clutch pearls. Smelling salts ready? Fainting couch in a
strategic position?

If you are a woman, you better be doing "it", whatever it is for yourself and your own satisfaction as the primary reason for doing it.

Because,

Three doctorates in Physics, Chemistry and Biology? You think average guy gives a tinker's toss?
[youtube]iEe_eraFWWs[/youtube]

[Maximus]

Jen is one... any others

[Apples]

Comradde Physiopricke has done his latest post in his "book group" series in which he copies and pastes an entire chapter from Moby Dick (and attracts almost no comments). This is number 13 -- only 122 chapters to go.

So.. he didn't "improved" Moby Dick with some of that charming grammar of his?

"So, Mobye Dickee wasa whaleh..."

Well, no, other than calling it Moby Dicke in the blog-title. He does have a recipe for vegetarian rigatoni up, because, you know, recipes are so hard to come by on the internet.

[Steersman]

Individuals of favored groups (the "oppressed") have every reason to distrust the motives of those wielding the noblesse oblige, and the disfavored "privileged" folks know for a fact that they're being judged unfairly. Lose-lose. That said, I'd like to hear you say more about how you see "gender feminism."

My bottom concerning "gender feminism" is pretty well summed up here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_an ... r_feminism
<snip>
As an aside, interesting things can happen when the RadFems and GenderFems agree. For example Catherine Anne MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_MacKinnon
<snip>
I would not characterize either as harmless.

Somewhat apropos of feminism in general and your post in particular and FWIW, my recent comment (still in moderation) on Ben Radford’s site on his own “modest proposal”:

Nice bit of satire, although probably not surprising that some of the “usual suspects” didn’t think so.

But one thing that quite literally astounded me was the response from various so-called feminists to your first post – “Over It”. One would have thought – and I had to re-read the poem again after seeing some of the responses, Myers’ in particular – that you were the most egregious dyed-in-the-wool MRA imaginable and were calling for the rape and subjugation of all womankind. As I noted in that post (#174), it was rather surprising that so many missed all of your support for many of the positive aspects of feminism yet were prepared to tar-and-feather you for having the temerity to suggest that there might be a fly or two in the ointment, something a little bit “off” if not actually rotten in the State of “Feminism” in general. The “no true Scotsman” fallacy, I guess.

However, while I think that the charge against Myers and company for creating monster-sized – if not monstrous – straw-men arguments holds quite a bit of water, the case for it doesn’t seem as clearcut as it might be. And that is largely because it seems that it was first Ophelia Benson and then PZ Myers who charged you with creating and attacking a bunch of “straw feminists” which then raises the question as to whether that in itself is the “largish” strawman you were referring to, or whether it was related to other issues such as the interpretation of various statistics.

But my impression is that it is the former – the charge of having created straw feminists – that constitues the bulk of their decidedly egregious strawman argument, and which seems most easily dismantled by providing proof of the half-dozen or so cases that you listed in your poem, several of which Benson referred to in some detail. While I provided a few examples to buttress that claim – that those “straw feminists” were anything but the figment of your imagination or of anybody else, and which constitute a serious and hard-edged problem – in that thread (#163) and in the subsequent one, as did several others in both, it seems to me that it would be of substantial benefit to the atheist/skeptic communities if CFI were to address those points, facts, and arguments in some detail. And there might even be some ancillary benefits to Minnesota farmers and livestock ….

[Dick Strawkins]

Jen is one... any others

There is one of the Skepshicks called BugGirl, who I think is some kind of scientist - presumably studying insects or other creepy crawlies.
As for the rest?
Svan, no.
Greta, no.
Watson :lol:
I think one or two of the sycophantic fans might be but the big names aren't.

[codelette]

...
If you are a woman, you better be doing "it", whatever it is for yourself and your own satisfaction as the primary reason for doing it.

Because,

Three doctorates in Physics, Chemistry and Biology? You think average guy gives a tinker's toss?

Well, according to the suckers on the other side, women -like Dr Hall and the rest of the chill girls- go into STEM/male dominated fields to garner male attention.

[mordacious1]

I think Watson has a PhD in AllThingsSciencey from GoogleU...

[codelette]

She has a Bachelor of Science...

...in Communication...

[Apples]

Well, they're all degree-holders in "Advanced Social Justice for the Compleat Idiot," as certified by the fraudulent online diploma mill known as A+.

[Maximus]

Jen is one... any others

There is one of the Skepshicks called BugGirl, who I think is some kind of scientist - presumably studying insects or other creepy crawlies.
As for the rest?
Svan, no.
Greta, no.
Watson :lol:
I think one or two of the sycophantic fans might be but the big names aren't.

Ewwww, bugs... she must be doing it for all the male attentions. Although I would love a girl that could kill spiders for me, creepy little fuckers :shock:

[Mr Danksworth]

What a douchenozzle.

http://i.imgur.com/Qu2JtOs.jpg

Lordy, get over yourself.

Lordy? Gee golly gosh!Look at you, getting all offended on someone else's behalf. So precious. Are you training for the A+ forums?

[Dick Strawkins]

Jen is one... any others

There is one of the Skepshicks called BugGirl, who I think is some kind of scientist - presumably studying insects or other creepy crawlies.
As for the rest?
Svan, no.
Greta, no.
Watson :lol:
I think one or two of the sycophantic fans might be but the big names aren't.

Ewwww, bugs... she must be doing it for all the male attentions. Although I would love a girl that could kill spiders for me, creepy little fuckers :shock:

Wait, I forgot.
Ophelia used to be a zookeeper, looking after elephants.

Until, of course, the unfortunate accident...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nBAw9Dm8d1s/S1zA8 ... t_poop.jpg

[AndrewV69]

This was brought up earlier:

I wonder what the reaction would be over at Aethism Plus if they were told that the MRA position is that "yes it is rape and she should be in jail for it".

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4035

Given the power disparity between a guard and a prisoner, I think she should be charged with either rape or some derivative of rape (I don't know what they call it in NY).

Seriously, I am pretty confident that most MRAs agree on this. In certain respects, MRAs are no different from the GenderFems at all.

Not only that. I see signs that we are well on the way to forming our own separatist, our very own RadFems.

[Apples]

I was just perusing the @atheismplus_ "arguably a parody site" Twitter feed. One of my favorites:

"Looking back over the past year, I think I can say that we have done more than anyone to prove that hell is real."

also:

"Nobody should ever say that a woman is wrong about anything, since doing so feeds into the stereotype of women being stupid."

and:

"The reason we call people misogynists and rapists is just in case it might be true, and people can then check it out."

https://twitter.com/atheismplus_

[codelette]

My favorite anecdote of Skepchick scientism

Sot.N: How did your interest in science begin?

I found out that one of the DVDs I had was complete bunk and the other one was right on the money
Amy: I think it’s… I had decided at some point… oh I remember. I had gotten a DVD, and it was supposed to be about physics but it was called What The Bleep Do We Know? and it turned out to be total pseudoscience, but I didn’t know it at the time, I thought it was a legitimate physics film. And I had decided that I wanted to learn about science, so I got that movie and I also purchased another DVD which was called The Elegant Universe, and it was hosted by Brian Greene who was an actual physicist. And so I watched both of these films and I was interested, but I didn’t really understand a lot of the science. So I went online to search for science and when I did that I stumbled across a couple different podcasts. One of them was Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe and the other was Skeptically Speaking, I think it was, or Skepticality. It was one of the other skeptical based podcasts and that was really… it opened all these doors for me and it showed me how to differentiate between legitimate science and pseudoscience and that’s why I found out that one of the DVDs I had was complete bunk and the other one was right on the money. And I just became more and more interested in the topics as time went on.

lol.
idiot.

[Karmakin]

Individuals of favored groups (the "oppressed") have every reason to distrust the motives of those wielding the noblesse oblige, and the disfavored "privileged" folks know for a fact that they're being judged unfairly. Lose-lose. That said, I'd like to hear you say more about how you see "gender feminism."

My bottom concerning "gender feminism" is pretty well summed up here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_an ... nism[quote]
In contrast to equity feminism, Sommers coined the term "Gender feminism" to describe what she contends is a gynocentric and misandric branch of feminism. Gender feminists typically criticize contemporary gender roles and aim to eliminate them altogether.[1]

Sommers argues that gender feminism characterizes most of the body of modern feminist theory, and is the prevailing ideology in academia. She argues that while the feminists she designates as gender feminists advocate preferential treatment and portraying "all women as victims", equity feminism provides a viable alternative form of feminism to those who object to elements of gender feminist ideology.

(Sommers is Christina Hoff Sommers, author of Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women (Touchstone/Simon & Schuster, 1995))

I mentioned this before I think. The baboons have been from time to time accused of being RadFems, but I see them more as GenderFems.

This is a RadFem (separatist) in her natural habitat:
]
Radical feminism needs to examine heterosexuality the same way we do BDSM. Most radfems seem to agree that there can be no true consent in BDSM because of our patriarchal culture informing all of our decisions and preferences. BDSM is a hyper-aggressive sexually hierarchal microcosm of heterosexuality.

But we cannot stop the critical thinking there. It’s imperative that we view heterosexuality in similar terms. Heterosexuality and by proxy intercourse is harmful to women for a multitude of reasons, and learning that it is unavoidable is extremely harmful to girl children.

....

Heterosexuality is not feminist. It’s a method of keeping women unnecessarily bound to men to provide sex, free labour, and children to be indoctrinated into more of the same.[/quote]

As an aside, interesting things can happen when the RadFems and GenderFems agree. For example Catherine Anne MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_MacKinnon

MacKinnon, along with feminist activist Andrea Dworkin, has been active in reforming legal postures towards pornography, framing it as a form of sex discrimination and, more recently, a form of human trafficking.

I would not characterize either as harmless.[/quote]

Where I think the characterization of "Gender Feminism" either is currently WAY out of date, or never really existed at all. The thing is, that the oppressor/oppressed model is in and of itself a series of gender roles, and generally speaking Gender Feminists..or Neofeminists, as I hope they'll be called, completely miscalculate how successful they've been and how much real change has been made in society over the last thirty years, where they are calling things that are by and large decried by most of society something that's supported.

The whole concept of "Rape Culture" is a really good example of this.

The real problem, and why they're so fucking off the rails, is that, not to get all cliche, they have the attitude internalized in their minds "What do we want..BLECH..when do we want it NOW". That's the common attitude that drives all this. That incremental progress is not good enough...hell, we're not even a life-span away from the 60's, which could be seen as the start of the current changes in favor of equality. No, they want the WHOLE cake (It probably would be more accurate to say they want about 60% of the cake, to be honest) It would be bad enough if they wanted HALF the cake right now. But in some cases, they're crossing the line from moving from equality to moving towards privilege, and that's what pisses people off.

At the end of the day, all they're doing is doing harm in terms of what they want to achieve.

[AndrewV69]

Well, according to the suckers on the other side, women -like Dr Hall and the rest of the chill girls- go into STEM/male dominated fields to garner male attention.

Sounds like envy to me. They not only have not got the chops, no male is ever going to become dumber than a bag of hammers once they start talking to them.

Why Interacting with a Woman Can Leave Men "Cognitively Impaired"
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... y-impaired

[windy]

Comradde Physiopricke has done his latest post in his "book group" series in which he copies and pastes an entire chapter from Moby Dick (and attracts almost no comments). This is number 13 -- only 122 chapters to go.

So.. he didn't "improved" Moby Dick with some of that charming grammar of his?

"So, Mobye Dickee wasa whaleh..."

Oh great, now I'm imagining CPP as Jar Jar Binks.

[Karmakin]

This was brought up earlier:

I wonder what the reaction would be over at Aethism Plus if they were told that the MRA position is that "yes it is rape and she should be in jail for it".

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4035

Given the power disparity between a guard and a prisoner, I think she should be charged with either rape or some derivative of rape (I don't know what they call it in NY).

Seriously, I am pretty confident that most MRAs agree on this. In certain respects, MRAs are no different from the GenderFems at all.

Not only that. I see signs that we are well on the way to forming our own separatist, our very own RadFems.

Yeah, there's going to be a split between people who still self-identify as MRAs (whose ideology is based upon gender conflict and zero-sum ideology, I.E. just like the Gender/Rad/Neofeminists, and people who self-identify as egalitarians.

[KiwiInOz]

Congratulations! When are you due, and how are you doing?

I am due Augustish, and I am riding the vomit train daily. LOL.

codelette I cannot offer any placentas, because my husband has drawn a line in the sand and says I can't take any more home and put them in his kitchen. I have put in the last placenta because I heard a FANTASTIC story about some robbers who broke into a house and stole all their meat, includin the placentas, so I want to keep one in their as a burglar trap. (AHAHHAHA). But yes, apparently I need to put all future ones in the bin. :(

We planted my daughter's placenta under a kowhai, and my two sons' under totata saplings, in the garden.

PS Congrats.

[AndrewV69]

At the end of the day, all they're doing is doing harm in terms of what they want to achieve.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, I see a massive backlash forming. My timeframe is around 80 years. Fortunately I will not be alive to see it.

[JackSkeptic]

My favorite anecdote of Skepchick scientism

Sot.N: How did your interest in science begin?

I found out that one of the DVDs I had was complete bunk and the other one was right on the money
Amy: I think it’s… I had decided at some point… oh I remember. I had gotten a DVD, and it was supposed to be about physics but it was called What The Bleep Do We Know? and it turned out to be total pseudoscience, but I didn’t know it at the time, I thought it was a legitimate physics film. And I had decided that I wanted to learn about science, so I got that movie and I also purchased another DVD which was called The Elegant Universe, and it was hosted by Brian Greene who was an actual physicist. And so I watched both of these films and I was interested, but I didn’t really understand a lot of the science. So I went online to search for science and when I did that I stumbled across a couple different podcasts. One of them was Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe and the other was Skeptically Speaking, I think it was, or Skepticality. It was one of the other skeptical based podcasts and that was really… it opened all these doors for me and it showed me how to differentiate between legitimate science and pseudoscience and that’s why I found out that one of the DVDs I had was complete bunk and the other one was right on the money. And I just became more and more interested in the topics as time went on.

lol.
idiot.

I sometimes wonder how much of the FTB/A+ ignorance is due to US education and attitudes of 'everyone is a winner'. Therefore they think they know what skepticism is but fail to grasp it enough to apply it to themselves as they are completely unfamiliar with being challenged on their own beliefs. This would also explain some of the reason them are so aggressive when they are challenged. They simply don't know what to do. There seems very few, if any, that are from outside the US.

[franc]

And, as on display in Harriet Hall v. Amanda Marcotte, Ophelia, Watson, etc, they don't care much for the women who are successful and capable. Must be something evil afoot there! Marcotte's (and Ophelia's in her Special Lady post) insinuation that Hall was rejoicing in her privileged tokenism at the deliberate expenseof all other women is revolting but telling.

Crabs in the bucket