The Refuge of the Toads

[Oglebart]

I strongly suspect this is gesturing to create an imaginative a problem where there is none.

Suppose you start suggesting all conferences have a first-aid desk for buzzard attacks. You even offer a personal escort for people who have their ears pecked off. If you manage to convince enough conferences to adopt this policy, soon people start to believe there may be something going on even though no one has actually ever witnessed an avian incursion.

Hmm. Someone called feathers, with a chicken/penguin avatar, talking about buzzard attacks? I'm watching you :naughty:

[Oglebart]

[youtube]edP0L6LQzZE[/youtube]

I am sure this is PZ's jam.

Really? I didnt see any squid.

Well, there goes three minutes of my life that I won't see again. What a pile of shit.

[John D]

This is my favorite purchase at the dollar store. It is a one foot tall statue of a cow dressed like the magician Siegfried of Siegfried and Roy. It is so fucking weird I had to buy it. It is some kind of collectible that originally sold for something like $50.

download.jpg

Was it part of a Siegfried & Roy series, or a cow series?

A cow series...

http://shopcowparade.com/Siegfried-of-S ... info/7280/

[Steersman]

In contrast, my date was wearing stretch tights.

That quite unusual for a horse, Matt. A horsecloth, perhaps, but tights?

:lol: That's quite an image. :-)

[Steersman]

<snip>
I found myself surprisingly offended by that niqab & by the absence of women on the street. It's a multi-ethnic city, and there were whites, blacks, Asians & latinos at the rink. Only the moslems stood out. Only the moslem women were segregated by attire and location & freedom of movement. It's been 15 years, but I worked downtown for many years, and they weren't around back then. I'm not going full steerzo and call for their deportation, but I do feel people should speak out and let these moslems know their discriminatory treatment of women in public is offensive & incompatible with our free society. I would not hesitate to do so were I to encounter this again.

You think stern looks are going to solve the problem? When a disease or syndrome or symptom - gangrene for example - has progressed so far then it is frequently the case that amputation is the only solution.

[Eskarina]

@ Skeptickle

It's a bit like trying to debug a program, isn't it.

But it gets a lot worse when it's not a bug, but a feature.

[Steersman]

Couple of areas I'd like to have you clarify, if you would be so kind. See in particular the portions in green. I'm de-emphasized in gray the sections you answered to my temporary satisfaction. :)
<snip>

1) What is your term for a person others might call a "woman" but who does not meet your definition of woman?

A person? Nominally – in name only – a woman?

"Noun, n. a word (other than a pronoun) used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things {common noun), or to name a particular one of these (proper noun)."

If nominally a woman, then a woman?

A rose by any other name...

Kind of looks like you’re grabbing at straws; working on a strawman – or strawwoman – are you? ;-)

But I did allude to the definition that I had in mind, i.e.:

nom•i•nal (nŏm′ə-nəl) adj.
2a. Existing in name only; not real: "a person with a nominal religious position but no actual duties" (Leo Damrosch).

Like one might, for the sake of argument, say that Bruce Jenner is a woman in name only. But I’m not entirely sure of the connotations of “nominal”, although the philosophy of nominalism may in fact be the crux of the matter as well as the essence of my argument.

In any case, to sort of cut to the chase and since you’ve peppered me with questions while rather unfairly and pointedly refusing to answer mine – not really cricket, I ask again, what precise definition do you have in mind for “woman” yourself? It seems your position is rather analogous to those who would argue that because there’s an infinite number of shades of black and white between absolute black and absolute white, any two of which that are “adjacent” are virtually indistinguishable, we are entirely justified in arguing that black is white. Rather anti-intellectual and anti-scientific at best.

But how do you tell when you meet a person in any/every RL context, not limited to meeting a person when you might be seeking a sex partner or potential mother for children?

As asked above: Can you tell by looking? Is there a question or set of questions you ask (or would ask)?

Does "it most often if not always hadn't been an issue" mean that most of the time you don't make a judgment as to whether or not a person is a woman?

And as I said, in most cases it is simply not an issue. If I were to put my brain up on the hoist, inside the fMRI machine, and trace the sequence of my thoughts then there might be cases where I’ve thought “Hm. Looks like a woman – file under ‘not-relevant-now’” and then proceeded on that basis.

The woman you referenced above was presumably thought to have no hope of pregnancy until a specialist identified her tiny uterus and proposed an attempt, crazy though it sounded at the time, to enlarge it via hormonal treatments. At what point along the way would you have said she 1st qualified to be called woman?

When the zygotes were implanted? Meeting, to some degree, the requirement for “bearing young”? While it is maybe a stretch, I kind of think the dictionary definitions are analogous to the philosophy of functionalism in which classes “are constituted solely by their functional role”, are defined by the functions that the members are capable of exhibiting. As soon as, but not until, that woman – Hayley Haynes – demonstrated the ability to “bear young” then she was, ipso facto, a woman.

Ask around. See if you can find "rather a large number of people" in the general population who do, then show me/us that group. In fact, your reply to Michele (which i snipped out below) that only she and you were on the right track suggests quite the opposite.

You really think that publishers of dictionaries are in the habit of putting definitions that no one subscribes to at the top of the list? While, as I suggested in that Nugent comment, I doubt that they’re infallible, I still kind of doubt they would be that biased or clueless.

It seems that it’s only when there is some necessity to get down to some brass tacks – as in the whole “trans women are women (yes or no?)” debacle – do people really start to give some thought to the implications and connotations of such terms. Unexamined lives and premises and all that.

Ah, so that's what it boils down to. In trying for precision in defining something in RL & biology you've managed to conclude that (in your opinion) not only are trans women not women, but that many women aren't women. As I suggested earlier, you might find "species" and "life" to offer interesting similar exercises in "get[ting] down to brass tacks" on those, too) - well, interesting if you recognize the difficulties in matching RL with a word.

You might want to take a close look at my comment in response to one by Gunboat Diplomat in one of Nugent’s threads; a salient point or two:

Also you do know taxonomy is often fairly.arbitrary don’t you? There are often multiple, sometimes contradictory classification definitions.

Yes, I quite agree. However, I think you’ll find that that those contradictions, the fuzziness of the sets, is due to the fact that multiple attributes, each of which exists over a spectrum of real values (analog), are used to define those other classes.

Not at all the case with “man” and “woman” where there are two attributes – “produces ova” or “produces sperm” – which are mutually exclusive (see article on human hermaphrodites), and which exist in an either/or state: either one produces that particular gamete or one doesn’t. Entirely different kettles of fish.

Just because the dividing lines between some classes are a little fuzzy – you may wish to touch base on fuzzy sets – that doesn’t mean that all classes are likewise. Kind of anti-scientific to suggest otherwise.

[free thoughtpolice]

A convicted serial killer in Egypt that committed his crimes when he was 2 years old, true story, I wouldn't shit you:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world ... picks=true

[Steersman]

@ Skeptickle

It's a bit like trying to debug a program, isn't it.

But it gets a lot worse when it's not a bug, but a feature.

:) Indeed. Sometimes the dividing line isn't entirely clear; the sets of "bugs" and "feature" are sometimes rather "fuzzy". ;-)

[jet_lagg]

I wouldn't be a proper misogynist if I didn't share this bit of woman-demonizing nightmare fuel with you all. It's a story about a woman who faked a pregnancy and then, once the ruse was too hard to maintain, a miscarriage. I had a friend date a girl who did the same to him. She claimed to have passed out on the subway and woken up at the hospital to hear the news. The woman in this story thought up a more dramatic ending though. She cut the fetus out of a mother she met online, and deposited the still gasping thing in the bathtub then called her boyfriend.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/23/us/unborn ... index.html

[free thoughtpolice]

Some Australian dude harassing Jenny:
[youtube]SWLIFSl1Yss[/youtube]

[MarcusAu]

http://i.imgur.com/X69cq7x.png

When I was five or six years old, I got separated from my mother and got lost in a shopping mall. A kindly security guard took me to the area designated for lost children, and comforted me until my mother came and got me. Again, I was six years old.

The fact that this is now a service performed on behalf of people who are are supposedly normally intelligent chronological adults depresses the hell out of me.

Based on your profile picture - I'm assuming this happened sometime last week.

[MarcusAu]

This is my favorite purchase at the dollar store. It is a one foot tall statue of a cow dressed like the magician Siegfried of Siegfried and Roy. It is so fucking weird I had to buy it. It is some kind of collectible that originally sold for something like $50.

download.jpg

Was it part of a Siegfried & Roy series, or a cow series?

A cow series...

http://shopcowparade.com/Siegfried-of-S ... info/7280/

On first glance I thought it was Hellcow:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellcow

[Kirbmarc]

On first glance I thought it was Hellcow:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellcow

Bessie, better known as Hellcow, is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character, a vampire cow, was created by writer Steve Gerber and artist Frank Brunner. She made her first appearance in Giant-Size Man-Thing #5 (1975).

:lol:

[John Greg]

Matt C. said:

She wore the niqab and a heavy cloak (chador?). She was furiously looking about & scowling to see if anyone reacted to her. I'm thinking, 'The one thing I can see is your eyes, bitch.' So, yeah I scowled back.

Er, if she was wearing the chador and the niqab, and you could only see her eyes, how did you know she was scowling? Scowling is a "whole-face" affair.

[Billie from Ockham]

If you were raised in a culture within which other people could only see your eyes, you would develop distinct eye-only expressions, as well. Too bad your privileged up-bringing has deprived you of this opportunity. When and where Matt learned to read these expressions is beyond me. I learned them when I was very young. Yeah, that's right ... I learned them from my mummy.

[Gumby]

Based on your profile picture - I'm assuming this happened sometime last week.

Hahaha that's great!

:bjarte:

[jimthepleb]

<snip>

So is he still a man? Or is he Steersperson after the snip?

[John Greg]

A links/citations/stats request:

A while back, someone posted some links to charts showing that men and women receive approximately the same level of online "harassment". Can someone repost those links please?

I am planning to respond to an anti-trolling article that, for one thing, holds Sarkeesian in high regard and as an exemplar of wrong online harassment. My primary reason for responding is that this article is on a BC online news site which usually provides really well researched and factual stuff (The Tyee), but in this case has provided an SJW stylee article, which really should be rebutted.

It would be great, hint hint, if some of the Pit's better SJW, online harassment, and Sarkeesian historians went there and rebutted with facts and links I don't have close to hand.

link: http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2016/02/24 ... olidarity/

Hint hint.

...

Hint hint.

[Dave]

OK, Shitlords. Im reading this: http://thesetupwizard.tumblr.com/tagged ... ard/chrono and finding it rather amusing.

Still, its a bit shocking to find something on tumblr that isnt complete shit.

[free thoughtpolice]

A links/citations/stats request:

A while back, someone posted some links to charts showing that men and women receive approximately the same level of online "harassment". Can someone repost those links please?

I am planning to respond to an anti-trolling article that, for one thing, holds Sarkeesian in high regard and as an exemplar of wrong online harassment. My primary reason for responding is that this article is on a BC online news site which usually provides really well researched and factual stuff (The Tyee), but in this case has provided an SJW stylee article, which really should be rebutted.

It would be great, hint hint, if some of the Pit's better SJW, online harassment, and Sarkeesian historians went there and rebutted with facts and links I don't have close to hand.

link: http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2016/02/24 ... olidarity/

Hint hint.

...

Hint hint.

Looking for this?http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/o ... arassment/

[feathers]

https://i.imgflip.com/zrltb.jpg

[feathers]

Also Sony has a 6 album deal with her. IF she was smart she would take that deal knock those out in the next 2 years and get what money that she can.

She is literally just a "pretty face" that doesn't have any other talent.

I've never heard of a record contract the artist couldn't slither their way out of.

Though such a bind did lead to one of the most un-PC albums ever:

MI0000030877.jpg

Oh yes that one.

Talking about,

[youtube]7DqvweTYTI0[/youtube]

[feathers]

Hmm. Someone called feathers, with a chicken/penguin avatar, talking about buzzard attacks? I'm watching you :naughty:

Consult Zvan if it bothers you! It's free and she'll follow you everywhere! By all means try to go to the toilet.

[John Greg]

Kirbmarc and Brive, you have PMs.

Go Go Go!

[free thoughtpolice]

http://i.imgur.com/X69cq7x.png

Zvan is really tough standing up to the thugs that attend A/S conventions, like the time she bamboozled the efforts of that scary marine biologist grad student Christy (I forget her last name) to sexually harass that poor innocent dude.
I know she regrets not helping her friends when they wanted her to canvas her neighborhood and encourage them to support gay rights but it didn't have anything to do with her being afraid to do it because her neighborhood happens to be majority conservative muslim Somalis. :hand:

[John Greg]

Thanks, free thoughtpolice. That is indeed what I was looking for.

[comhcinc]

Kirbmarc and Brive, you have PMs.

Go Go Go!

Wait I thought only women can have PMs?

[comhcinc]

New Page New Update.

The next online thing is Saturday. I don't know what time, you tell me. We are going to give Skype a try. This is a private non record thing only for the regulars. So....

What time do we want to do this?

Also you need to add me on Skype. "iamstanbrooks"

[feathers]

Kirbmarc and Brive, you have PMs.

Go Go Go!

Wait I thought only women can have PMs?

Maybe he means Penis Miniaturisation Syndrome?

[Ape+lust]

http://i.imgur.com/X69cq7x.png

Zvan is really tough standing up to the thugs that attend A/S conventions, like the time she bamboozled the efforts of that scary marine biologist grad student Christy (I forget her last name) to sexually harass that poor innocent dude.
I know she regrets not helping her friends when they wanted her to canvas her neighborhood and encourage them to support gay rights but it didn't have anything to do with her being afraid to do it because her neighborhood happens to be majority conservative muslim Somalis. :hand:

I think it's wonderful that self-important bag of assholes now lives with that other self-important bag of assholes so they can reinforce and amplify each other's delusions. The paranoia and playacting in their household must be epic.

http://imgur.com/cNT8mz5.png

[Brive1987]

http://i.imgur.com/X69cq7x.png

Zvan is really tough standing up to the thugs that attend A/S conventions, like the time she bamboozled the efforts of that scary marine biologist grad student Christy (I forget her last name) to sexually harass that poor innocent dude.
I know she regrets not helping her friends when they wanted her to canvas her neighborhood and encourage them to support gay rights but it didn't have anything to do with her being afraid to do it because her neighborhood happens to be majority conservative muslim Somalis. :hand:

Wilcox.

Zvan: "I got it wrong".

Where she famously described shooting herself in the foot as "I published an account of her actions that has not fully stood up in the face of further scrutiny."

And then went on to describe all the sexist issues she should be reiterating but which she wouldn't. Because that would be inappropriate.

https://archive.is/QeKzy

[Brive1987]

In fact that post generate a stirling comment from someone who doesn't seem to be able to comment there any more.

:lol:


http://i.imgur.com/dNvrfoC.jpg

[feathers]

I think it's wonderful that self-important bag of assholes now lives with that other self-important bag of assholes so they can reinforce and amplify each other's delusions. The paranoia and playacting in their household must be epic.

http://imgur.com/cNT8mz5.png

I don't know about the US, but here, due to understaffing, the police can't even be arsed to investigate burglaries or bike theft. Hell, some supermarkets complained they didn't turn up in due time when called for petty thieves becoming violent! I sure hope they're not going to waste any manpower on "cyberharassment".

[Ape+lust]

Yes, yeeees, make like eating is the other team's problem.

http://imgur.com/o4OLQCb.jpg

[feathers]

Yes, yeeees, make like eating is the other team's problem.

[.img]http://imgur.com/o4OLQCb.jpg[/img]

I think the proper term is autophagous, the exerciser of which must logically be an autofaggot.

[Brive1987]

This is probably why I thought PZ's Morris real estate fund was under performing.

http://i.imgur.com/lYCFMIq.jpg

[Brive1987]

So after Nevada is Trump home and hosed? I don't understand the nuances at play.

[KiwiInOz]

.... Then, when we were done and sat down on the benches to take off our skates, we spotted the mother pushing a toddler in a stroller. She wore the niqab and a heavy cloak (chador?). She was furiously looking about & scowling to see if anyone reacted to her. I'm thinking, 'The one thing I can see is your eyes, bitch.' So, yeah I scowled back.

.....

Nah. You should have winked at her and smiled. Works every time.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Matt C. said:

She wore the niqab and a heavy cloak (chador?). She was furiously looking about & scowling to see if anyone reacted to her. I'm thinking, 'The one thing I can see is your eyes, bitch.' So, yeah I scowled back.

Er, if she was wearing the chador and the niqab, and you could only see her eyes, how did you know she was scowling? Scowling is a "whole-face" affair.

Tru dat. She was glaring.

[Ape+lust]

Yes, yeeees, make like eating is the other team's problem.

[.img]http://imgur.com/o4OLQCb.jpg[/img]

I think the proper term is autophagous, the exerciser of which must logically be an autofaggot.

This guy will be relieved to know that, for once, there's no way he's the autofaggot. He'll still catch shit for that hair, though.

http://imgur.com/3Q6B64x.jpg

[Gumby]

I think it's wonderful that self-important bag of assholes now lives with that other self-important bag of assholes so they can reinforce and amplify each other's delusions. The paranoia and playacting in their household must be epic.

http://imgur.com/cNT8mz5.png

1) I love how they puff themselves up by touting this silly schism (that they instigated) as a "war" in which they are serving multiple tours of duty.

2) How could Elevatorgate have "foreshadowed" Gamergate, when they have absolutely fuck-all to do with each other?

3) "Top talent"? You mean second and third rate clickbate rage-bloggers? :lol:

4) Being disagreed with and mocked is cyber "harassment", worthy of being investigated by law enforcement? :lol: :lol:

What a sad, pathetic bunch.

[Tigzy]

Yes, yeeees, make like eating is the other team's problem.

http://imgur.com/o4OLQCb.jpg

Foul ol Lindy West
Checked her knicks, saw she'd messed,
And thus she cried, vexed with distaste,
That even as shit, food still goes to waste.

[Tigzy]

I'll say this for Matt Myers: he looks the type to be a real badass at Magic the Gathering.

[Tigzy]

Yes, yeeees, make like eating is the other team's problem.

[.img]http://imgur.com/o4OLQCb.jpg[/img]

I think the proper term is autophagous, the exerciser of which must logically be an autofaggot.

This guy will be relieved to know that, for once, there's no way he's the autofaggot. He'll still catch shit for that hair, though.

http://imgur.com/3Q6B64x.jpg

That's the gay version of what our negro chums refer to as 'being on the down low'.

[John D]

One of my daughters was having a bit of a celebration. She switched her birth control to the new shot that you get every six months. One of the nice side-effects is that you stop having a period. She was really happy about this until I explained to her that Steersman says she is no longer a woman! ;)

[ERV]

Im not going to stop talking about Kesha.

I love her and you can all go Die In A Fire (TM).

What she sounds like when she writes a song, limited electronic modification of her voice/accompaniment, and a non-shit producer (Flaming Lips dude):
[youtube]DL1B1D3QJI0[/youtube]

[Tigzy]

http://imgur.com/3Q6B64x.jpg

Pork and Lindy.

[free thoughtpolice]

Not a new video, but Mrs. Buntzums really blows a well known sexist's argument out of the water :drool:
[youtube]xNtSjSsoAaY[/youtube]

[Karmakin]

I'll say this for Matt Myers: he looks the type to be a real badass at Magic the Gathering.

As a Magic The Gathering player, I'll say this. People who are badasses at MTG look surprisingly normal, generally speaking. Now, people who THINK they are badasses at MTG but actually suck...they look like that guy.

[Tigzy]

As a Magic The Gathering player

Oh, oh, identity politics now, is it?

[Keating]

Not a new video, but Mrs. Buntzums really blows a well known sexist's argument out of the water :drool:
[youtube]xNtSjSsoAaY[/youtube]

Right, time to work out the foes list to add you to it.

[Ape+lust]

I think it's wonderful that self-important bag of assholes now lives with that other self-important bag of assholes so they can reinforce and amplify each other's delusions. The paranoia and playacting in their household must be epic.

http://imgur.com/cNT8mz5.png

1) I love how they puff themselves up by touting this silly schism (that they instigated) as a "war" in which they are serving multiple tours of duty.

2) How could Elevatorgate have "foreshadowed" Gamergate, when they have absolutely fuck-all to do with each other?

3) "Top talent"? You mean second and third rate clickbate rage-bloggers? :lol:

4) Being disagreed with and mocked is cyber "harassment", worthy of being investigated by law enforcement? :lol: :lol:

What a sad, pathetic bunch.

1) I know! They:

a. Hate the military.
b. Love martial imagery.

How do so many wind up like that? Daddy issues? It never seems to occur to them their goofy posturing can be seen by soldiers who actually got their shit blown up.

Jason Thibeault. Third tour veteran. Pale pipe swinger :lol:

[Tigzy]

Norty Smellody. You know very well that Dawkins hasn't harassed or harmed anyone. You, however, seem to be doing that very thing which caused you to get all ill and fat when others were apparently doing it to you.

[Billie from Ockham]

I'll say this for Matt Myers: he looks the type to be a real badass at Magic the Gathering.

I so wish that I could come up with a snappy come-back to this ... problem is, most Friday nights I see additional evidence that Tigzy is correct.

[Ape+lust]

http://imgur.com/3Q6B64x.jpg

Pork and Lindy.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

BRB, going to upgrade the odometer on Robin Williams' casket before it fireballs.

[Billie from Ockham]

One of my daughters was having a bit of a celebration. She switched her birth control to the new shot that you get every six months. One of the nice side-effects is that you stop having a period. She was really happy about this until I explained to her that Steersman says she is no longer a woman! ;)

At the risk to owing a few dead kittens, what is the correct label for my sexuality if my "wife" doesn't meet Steersman's criteria for woman? And does the label depend on the status of my own tubes?

[Billie from Ockham]

I'll say this for Matt Myers: he looks the type to be a real badass at Magic the Gathering.

As a Magic The Gathering player, I'll say this. People who are badasses at MTG look surprisingly normal, generally speaking. Now, people who THINK they are badasses at MTG but actually suck...they look like that guy.

Thank you!

(Do I dare ask what you think of people who play X-wing in the back of the room while their child plays Magic?)

[Tigzy]

Jesus - why is anyone debating Steers' ideas about women? I swear, first time the dude met some pussy he put a coin in it, pressed a tit and got confused when some sex was not deposited out of the female's mouth.

'I fear this machine is not up to my exacting standards.'

[Ape+lust]

I'll say this for Matt Myers: he looks the type to be a real badass at Magic the Gathering.

You can see the waves of stupid emanating from his forehead.

Does he have a story? He just seemed to show up one day with an attitude.

"By my stern-ness, ye shall know me."