Louis wrote:Cunning Punt,
Pharyngula IS intimidating. Deliberately. This is a feature, not a bug. It's not for everyone. Just like I don't necessarily want to post at Place X because their environment doesn't suit me (for example I'd be fucked if there were a no swearing policy. I loves me a swear I do), I don't expect that Pharyngula gets everyone's juices flowing either. Why would I? Different strokes for different folks. It's not wrong to like or dislike the posting environment there, it just is a matter of personal preference.
As for the "you have to dot every i and cross every t" thing, again I disagree. Yes there are intemperate people who will jump on any error, I'm occasionally one of them if I've had a bad day and want to spread the joy around! ;-) But there is more nuance there than you suspect. What there isn't, at this current time (and this has been the case for a while now) is a lot of tolerance for leading people through the basics on certain subjects. It's not about disagreement, it's about having to explain the same damned thing a million times to a large number of rather clueless shitheads. I'm not including you, or specifically anyone, in that category by the way. I'll explain.
We've all dealt with creationists, right? We've all had to give them "science 101 for abominable shitheads", we've all referred them to the Index of Creationist Claims, perhaps by page number. Creationist claims are so familiar as to be painful, there's not a lot of change because they tend to rest on a few foundational misunderstandings or lies about things people commonly misunderstand. I hate to say it, because I am possibly putting myself in the position of Feminism Defender (and I really can't be arsed at the moment), but the social sciences, of which feminism is a part, are also worthy of academic study. There are facts, theories, details that need to be understood. Caricaturing it as random ideology is lazy and untrue.
For the last 2 or 3 years there has been an uptick in certain...let's say...phenomena. The number and unpleasantness of various species of sexists crawling out of the woodwork has increased. Some people, rightly or wrongly, are pissed off about leading every one of those people by the hand through the basics. They long, instead for a space where they can discuss things at a slightly less basic level without hand holding and where they can also discuss things that intersect with those things. It's that simple. A group of perfectly normal human beings wanting a place to converse about stuff that interests them without 99% of the bullshit that that seems to attract.
Oh and I'm not with the Horde on everything. No one in the Horde is with the Horde on everything. You might not have seen that, but I have. Quite a bit.
Welcome Louis! I've only been posting at the Pit for a couple of weeks, and found it a refreshing blast of honesty.
I have to say, if that is your honest report of pharyngula, you must ignore 80% or more of the comments, and give PZ numerous passes for his rabid, dishonest bullshit.
I started reading pharyngula in 2005, along with a number of other liberal atheist blogs and science/skepticism blogs. It has NEVER been a place where you could ask questions about feminism or social theory and expect anything but grief. A tiny number of commenters would try to be helpful, but even they always assumed they were 100% right, and were never willing to look at their beliefs critically, only preach. I've been hearing that bullshit "101" argument for YEARS, on pretty much every liberal feminist site, including pharyngula. There is no place where the issues are discussed critically, only places where you can learn how to make a better feminist kaleidoscope. The only difference in the past at pharyngula was that there was a slightly higher ratio of posts about atheism or science, instead of constant propaganda.
What I have noticed, is that the more PZ and some others attempt to shoehorn all of the atheist/skeptical/secular community into pseudoscientific, political feminism and social theory, he's getting a bit of pushback from genuine skeptics. So now, he, and many others, ban questioners, delete comments, edit comments, and make plainly outrageous and slanderous comments towards those who don't drink the kool-aid, such as openly comparing non-feminists who may have uttered the word "mangina" to mass murderers. This has become his norm, and the vast majority of his commenters eat it up and encourage it. Several other bloggers have followed suit, and are even attempting to pretty much run the atheist/skeptic/secularist conference scene, decide who gets to be a popular skeptic, and run constant campaigns defaming and lying about those who disagree across multiple blogs.
I'm more than passingly familiar with feminism and social justice efforts. I've probably read more of the relevant material than most of the bloggers and the vast majority of their commenters. But if you don't tow the full party line, you are pariah these days. Feminist activists and much of academic feminism and social justice efforts, and pretty much all of "internet feminism" are rife with manipulated stats, pseudoscience, anti-science, and are overtly hostile to skepticism. Yet even on the lowly blogs, this shit is unquestionable holy writ. They want to stuff it all into secular and skeptical movements, and it's not a good fit.
The people here, and on other blogs that are voicing concern, actually debating social issues, and fighting back against dishonest tactics, are mostly liberals, and many of them are women and minorities, yet we are demonized and slandered regularly. The pharyngula version of feminism is pretty toxic shit...ugly, superficial, anti-scientific, and mostly just patriarchy in lipstick, capitalizing on chivalry and artificial victimization, while ignoring any other perspectives....much like the last 30-40 years of "academic" feminism, it's utterly worthless outside it's own echo chamber. Yet if we dare question or point out flaws, we are compared to Marc Lepine, told that we're being "threatening", or "mansplaining", and quite frankly, having brain-dead idiots who can't even defend their positions say these things is the height of hypocrisy.
If pharyngula readers are the future of secularism or atheism, just admit it's a liberal religious cult and be done.